Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

Thought anyone that doesnt read em, (Or is to busy digging ;) )

http://www.massively.com/2008/12/21/...look-at-ryzom/

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

sweet, sounds rather positive :)

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/ryzom-article?page=1

Another article, in fact THE article that was mentionned in the first link. Fair review, methinks. *nods*

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

Yes, would have to agree.. States some obvious pros and cons many of us see and understand. Too bad this person either did not receive information, or did not have time to go into detail, on the depth of the craft system. Which for me has become the biggest source of frustration and enjoyment, both at the same time :D . Good find...

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

They really should streamline the crafting, make the armour trees one unit instead of a tree for each piece, just a tree for each style (MA HA LA), maybe with quests every certain number of levels (or something), same for jewels and 1 hand 2 hand weapons.

I know some people love the depth, but IMO it turns off the new players, lets face it, MMO's have moved on and streamlined does not mean dumbed down, I'm sure alot of new players think the craft system as it currently exists, is petty dumb and ask themselves, why should they play a MMO with such an ungainly craft system.

It had its place before WoW, but I think its commercial suicide to retain it in this day and age.

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

Yeah, screwing the lid of an imaginary bottle to craft anything and finding random metal turds in the scenery, is sooo much more imaginative and fun. -.-

Gimme a gun to hold to my head before that.
Unimaginative doesn´t mean cool.

But nice article nonetheless.
Love this guys sense of humor :D
Even if he spells bad ;)

CU
Acridiel

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

I have to agree with Acridiel, here. Maybe the system is newbie unfriendly, but who said it was aimed towards newbies ?

Anybody can craft "good" stuff , but only a few can craft the very best items. It rewards the most dedicated crafters, the true masters. I don't even consider myself a good crafter, but I surely do appreciate the mystery of our very rich and complex crafting system. Especially after seeing some of the dumb recipe-book based systems out there, where everybody and their mother can craft the same very identical stuff as you do with the same recipe that is available to everyone. (It really made me want to shoot myself.) The hidden secret recipes that can only be gained from experimenting or teachings of another homin... makes this system unique and awesome.

I'm never playing that kind of game again. And, really, if you put all the LA branches into one, you might run out of crafting SP with the current cost of plans, especially IF they introduce new designs... if you want to make crafting faster, change the XP modifiers, not the system.

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

Lol, article misspells Yubo.:D

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

Yabos... lol. No wonder he had to kill all the witnesses. If they knew he was also butchering their name, they'd REALLY be scarred. :rolleyes:

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

Me :D

Because I would like the game to attract new players :)

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

The crafting system as it is attracts the crafters that are tired of the dumbed-down or meaningless systems that are everywhere out there. As I said, everyone can gather random ingredients and get a pair of boots, but it takes time to figure out the system in order to get the "uber kickass boots". Some will figure out at lower levels. Some won't figure it out even after grinding up to 250. I wouldn't make the system easier for those who aren't meant to be dedicated crafters in the first place. (And crafting DOES require dedication.) Yes that sounds elitist : grinding doesn't make anyone a master. Competence makes mastery valid. Someone who's here strictly to "pew pew" won't be attracted by the crafting system anyway, simple or complex.

The fun part of the crafting system is not makin 200 zillion pendants... it's to find a way to make THE jewel set with THE resists you want. And you can get those resists easier on a lower q level craft than on a q250 one because of the wider variety of mats available.

Of course, all that information isn't available to the common of newbies, unless they are very curious and seek the information themselves. Even 4 years old multimasters can learn new recipes... why should newbies know everything from the very beginnings ? On Atys, you never stop learning.

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

I would be inclined to go with Valda on this, not the methods of crafting, but in attracting new players, when it was explained to me about all the crafting trees, after crafting a bit, I realised that I would never be able to craft my own gear in a timely fashion, to actually do the parts of the game I want to do (Combat and explore).

But in other MMO's I have played, yes I have dug those mineral turds out of the ground and made alot of money selling it in the Auction Houses, thus enabling me to buy equipment of a decent (quite good actually) standard.

I will never be able to do this in Ryzom, as it has no economy, no decent goods in its vendor system (case in point, last night I needed Q70 amps, the vendor only had Q60 and the next highest was Q77 with really bad stats).

Luckily enough I was teamed with a guy called Delters in a healing capacity, who made me some awesome amps (off hand I think 97% heal Power, but its elemental power was quite low 60+%) So evidently I need two sets of amps in a game where I cant even get one set easily, unless I craft it myself.

Anyway its horses for courses etc. :)

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

I wish everyone would take this attitude, it would make my life so much more simple :D

Guys I'm not knocking the way crafting is here, I am saying that a new player coming from any current MMO's will be stymied by the intricicies of crafting here and most will not stay to get to know more about it.

I'm glad to see you guys enjoying it so much, I would also like to see Ryzom actually make money, which can only be done with an influx of new players, this game is being ignored by people in their droves! They come, then they leave, why?

Its a beautiful world, its graphics are awesome, the mobs are awesome, the peope are awesome, the spells are awesome, no other game can best Ryzom on these counts, it has tons of PvP availabe that can be entered or ignored at will, but people come, play and then go.

Im just putting forth ideas on what might make them stay.

Saleema is a case in point, her few posts here have been very insightful on her part and quite instructive to SW, on why people may not be staying.

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

Yes, the only reason I have bothered to stay here is I have met some very nice people, the crafting here holds no attraction for me, but I have discussed my thoughts on this in another post.

I would say the lack of an economy is the main problem here, if there was a viable economy, then people that dont want to craft, could earn money to buy equipment in other ways, and if there was stuff for crafters to buy, it would maybe give them an incentive to craft more and sell through the NPC vendors.

The bottom line is, although people tell you that you can be whatever you want to be, they are only correct up to a point, there comes a time, when you have to dig and craft significantly, if only to return something to the society in general.

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

Hi. That post on Massively which lead over to Eurogamer is what got me to try the game. I'm only about a week in and I'm really loving what I've seen (at least on the island) and I can't wait to get deeper involved in the game.

To stay with the discussion, as a new player, I haven't found myself completely lost with it. After grasping the concept, I've actually had a very good time seeing which items will make what recipe. I'm only level 20 in crafting so perhaps it gets more confusing at higher levels but, at least at the moment, I'm loving every minute of it.

Happy Hunting everyone

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

There is no incentive to craft for the community except for the reward of feeling useful to other players, the economy is to simple to support the suggestion here I am afraid.

Consider this, how do you reward a top level crafter? With Dappers? People who have reached top level routinely have millions of dappers, so do we reduce the amount of dappers crafters and diggers get for selling their gear to the NPC's? But then how do newcomers earn money to buy the crafted goods in the first place.

The economy can in no way ever be as complex as the real world, and if it was it would be so complex that the very complexity would turn away newcomers. Yet without having a complex economy the sort of market economy you envisage won't work.

I am crafting and placing LA in Fair Haven regularly, and almost every day I sell a full set of light armour in the 40-60 q range, anything higher than that doesn't sell because by that stage most players are guilded up and get their gear from the guild. Same with weapons, amps, jewels etc. But to do that it means wasting mats that I have dug, usually 130Q or higher, for no increase in craft lvl, and no monetary reward worth having. In fact if a newcomer asks me I pull my gear from the vendor and give ti to them, the 5000-6000 dappers I get from selling it I get from one pair of HA Boots 90Q sold to an NPC.

Trying to create an economy to support the player base can very easily lead to a complex and obscure system imopossible to learn. Almost every MMO I have played has a simple economy driven by the sale of gear to the NPC's, some of them have rediculously simple crafting systems, I really enjoy the crafting in Ryzom, the digging also, but that's not to everybodys taste of course, they will need to look elsewhere in the game for satisfaction.

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

Hi zhaxor, thanks for the post :)

I have already posted some stuff on this in another thread. I cant really see any answers either.



I just posted these threads to give feedback to the developers, as to why new players are not staying. Although ironically I am still playing :)

As you said, by a certain level, people have joined guilds, well yes, it is a very guild driven game as I have been informed, it just meant me finding the right guild, which appears to have happened, but it took a fair bit of time for that to happen, which people may not give to a new game. I was lucky enough to meet the right people at the right time.

For example, I happened to quit a guild (players too high level for me) and walked into Pyr and almost immediately I got a PM "How come you are not in X guild anymore?" I explained what had happened and they asked me to give their guild a try, which worked out great, now that was great for a couple of reasons, Number one, I got into a guild more suitable to my needs, but it also made me aware that people are aware of your presence and if they see you need help, they are on the case immediately, I have never seen that in any other MMO, so I will definately be here when they start charging for the game too :)

Thanks again :)

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

Yeah I read all that and would have loved the opportunity to reply, but sadly I am restricted to the newbie land board :-(

That's one of the reasons I actually started putting lower lvl stuff up for sale through the vendors, and there is indeed a demand for lower lvl armour, weapons and jewels, but the rewards are just to small to encourage crafters to place lower lvl stuff once they become highly skilled, although I will continue to do so as long as I can. It does mean I waste a lot of 130q mats on less than 70q armour (that seems about the cut off point for purchasers new to ML, after thay they must all be guilded up)

The rewards for crafting need to be re-thought, at the moment its just mainly money and the ego trip of being a master, sad but true.

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

I think its sad to see that the "revard" of knowing you helped new players isn´t enough for some(most?) people. But allright, in this "personal reward is all that counts" society today it may even be understandable.

So, what may be done to make crafting more attractive to new players?

As far as I can see the biggest problem is understanding the system.
That´s one of the problems that already has been discussed a million times and I think the best solution people came up with and Spiderweb would be wise to listen to is summed up in three easy words:

"Explain, Explain, Explain!" ;)

The Tutorial texts on Silan are large already, yes, but admittedly they seem to talk a bit too much ;) Focus the crafting explanation more on the fact that recipes are to be found yourself, not gathered from mobs. Tell the Newcomers that crafting does in fact involve thinking with their own minds.
Instead of hoping that this yubo would conveniently carry the recipe for crafting boots from its own hide. Rephrase the explanation.

Edit: Oh, AND the explanations NEED to be re-readable! There´s simply too much stuff to keep in mind, crowding in on the unsuspecting Newbe, to remember all that was said by a Teacher upon first meeting him.

Admittedly crafting and figuring out recipes did never really catch my mind. I´m simply not that kind of person, I´m not a "number cruncher", so I´ve yet to get any higher than 110 in Amps in any craft, but as such I see the problem here with an untrained eye. (Still a N00B after 5 years of play, Yeay! :D STFU B00N LTCraft!)

The system as it is now is for the "number crunchers" those people who really love "playing with numbers and stats" and its great that in a world/game as Ryzom there IS a niche for these guys.
But people like me, who hate Sudoku and can´t get the hang of "abstract mathematics", or even some "real" ones, it certainly IS a bit much ;)

As I said, I still feel like a Newbe when it comes to crafting, so here are my collected two cents to get it at least a bit easier, not dumped down, mind you!

Some folks suggested a way to "remember" the recipes, apart from creating your own chart and noting every change that occurred on screen with every single item changed in a recipe... whoa. I can see that only few people will find that attractive. True Masters admittedly, even more if they´re able to remember it all without a chart. Whoa!

So, seriously, how about a way to store, or clipboard, your own recipes?
I don´t think this would automatically dumb down the system, it would but prevent people like me from making the same mistakes over and over again when trying to figure out a nice recipe for anything. Something like,
when a certain % success rate occurs the recipe is automatically stored in "your personal amber cube/chest of knowledge" (InGame Memory ;) )

If this would occur in a way that only the game could read it, maybe storing a "screenshot" of the materials at the front and whatever settings are needed for it to work in the backbone of the game, it would be fine and no-one would hopefully be able to exploit this system. (apart from some bad@$$ hacker, that is XD)
These recipes should not be "share-able" or trade-able, only by real explanation should a master be able to give them to an apprentice. By talking to him and maybe even showing him the correct mats. The succession of knowledge should still be in the hands of us players!

I think this would help a great deal, making at least remembering recipes a lot easier. And it wouldn´t spoil or dump down anything.
Of course it would still mean a lot of try and error on the part of people like me, but it would make the whole experience a lot less frustrating.
Apart form that its again summed up in three easy to remember words:

"Practice, practice, practice!"
:D ;)


CU
Acridiel

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

I think that is the situation to some extent, however its also simple thoughtlessness in some part. I suspect most master crafters simply don't think, for instance, of crafting 40q amps for beginners to use and putting them on the market. people who craft 40q amps and put them on the market are usually crafters who are only just starting out crafting, so the low lvl stuff available is just, well seriously, nothing but practice junk begining crafters are dumping, and there's lots of it to. This stuff just clutters up the vendors and makes it hard to actually find the decent stuff, but when it is there it sells quickly.

For instance I had the good fortune once to be given a small stack of Supreme Mektoub Eyes of 70Q, made a few lovely Supreme amps of 70Q, they were snapped up! But how many Master Crafters, coming across a stack of Supreme eyes of that low quality would even think to make amps to put on the market. Basically the stuff of that lvl is usually made by crafters of that lvl., and they simply don't have access to the good stuff to make decent amps and things like that.

Now I do like your suggestions about recipes, I would also like to see a seperation between junk and and good stuff of similar Q lvls so it wasn't all mixed together. I would like to see also shops where a crafter could place his good gear up for sale and not worry about it vanishing after 6 days, and when I say shops I really mean proper shops, for instance "Zhaxor's Emporium of Quality Amps" where I could put up my best amps for sale and where poeple who know my gear could come and purchase it (note I am not a master crafter :-), that was just an example). So a crafter could purchase a shop like we purchase apartments, with his hard earned millions of dappers and sell his best stuff there, it could have an area where he could train people, like apprentices etc, maybe he could even sell other peoples gear on commission, people who didn't want to own a shop but still made good gear.

And yes I do enjoy the crafting as you can tell, I am probably one of those you mentioned who would spend hours fiddling to get the best recipes and write it all down in charts :-) I LIKE the compexity of the crafting, and the fact that a good crafter can really be outstanding. Its hard to be outstading when anybody can spend a few weeks gridning and make exactly the same quality stuff you can, that's the annoying thing about many other MMO crafting systems, to become a Master its just, grind, grind, grind. Here, yes you can earn the title of master by geting your lvl250, but everyone knows that there are true masters around who have spent years studying recipes and learning how to make the very BESt stuff. There should be somemthng to differntiate THEM from the lvl250 grinders, something that we can aspire to and that we know won't be diluted by hundreds of newbie players grinding their way up the lvls.

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

EDIT: See? Sniped over an hour...
I'm probably ignoring the bulk of this thread, as I started reading it this morning and then got dragged away, and thus have forgotten most of it - but this stuck out at me:

Ryzom's crafting is an incredibly complex system, of course, but there are complexities which aren't covered by crafting guides. In particular I'm thinking of how one gets one's stuff.

You're right, in that only newbies tend to buy gear - but this isn't because guilds craft their own stuff. It's because once you join a guild, you're in the company of older players who know that if you need new gear, unless it's something special like Freddy's PvP gear or uber-stuff like my yelkoo maga amps, it's free. All you have to do is ask a crafter, and if they have the time and mats most will do it straight away - sometimes it takes a few days or more to get mats, but either way it's as simple as asking. And if you don't know who to ask, you just ask in faction or uni - this applies just as much to q50 gear as q250.

And another reason good stuff doesn't go on vendors, is that most vendor stuff times out. That's a waste of your good, crafting mats, when you could just use up your grind mats and no loss. Why risk seeing sup zun go into oblivion when you could ensure that someone gets the benefit from it by only using it for requests?

But, of course, newbies don't know this... and they also tend to have come from games with a currency economy, and so feel that getting Yet More Free Stuff is "leeching" and should be looked down on. There's no easy way to convey to the majority of newbies that this isn't the case, unfortunately. If there were, we should certainly do it...

And, yes, Ryzom doesn't have much of an economy. For exceptional craft requests, mats are the currency; but for general grind gear most crafters are quite happy to arrange that themselves - after all, most people who need a set of q150 LA can't dig q150 excels topside, let alone sups. It'd be pointless asking them to pay when you know they can't, and when you can get the mats yourself with relatively little trouble (hence your having to provide your own bossmats :p ).

I suppose having really good mats on the vendor for insane prices could counter this... maybe with sups if we get kitin patrols back; actually putting some value into the dapper. But then, when you have jool crafters who earn hundreds of mil from mastery, how do the rest of us keep up? At lvl 200-ish in most MA pieces I only have 30mil (technically 40...); so that would need to be balanced before selling mats becomes realistic.
Ofc you can always hope some f00 puts their sups on storage. Not that I've ever stolen storage sups or anything. :D

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

Personally I think its not complicated enough :-) Now this is hard to explain, but, for example, I think it should always be relatively easy to make a reasonably decent sword, just shell+shaft+grip+cw and you have a sword, but I would like to see optional extras also that could be added once you each a decent mastery. I guess what I am getting at is, it should be possible for a Master Crafter to make a unique weapon that is almost impossible to reproduce unless you know the exact combo of vital and optional extras. Something that would make a newbie go "ooooooooh shiny!" :-) With an almost infinite range of optional extras it would create a market, if you wanted, say, a "singing sword of scarlet brilliance" you need to purchase it from a certain Master crafter and no one else would kow exactly how to make them. (would need the addition of a lot more raw materials though :-)

The same with magic, and foraging, actually increase the compexity so that magicians could have unique spells and foragers find uique mats, almost impossible ro reproduce without years of research, or the tuitiion of a master, guilds could have thier own trademark spells and stuff or specialise in one area.

Crafting, spellcraft, foraging, would become a mini-game in itself and something worth achieveing. Crafters would pay master foragers to get raw material for them since only they would have the knowledge and skill to get certain stuff.

Yes as you can see I am tired of MMO's where the only thing necessary to become a master is time for grinding, we need something unique that appeals to players tired of the same old thing.

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

That's what the Op mats and the super secret recipes guarded by master crafters are for...

In other words it actually IS possible ;)

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

I already knew about that, and to an extent yes that's true, and that extent is, you MUST be a member of a guild and that guild MUST have an outpost, an independant Master Crafter can't exist otherwise, which I find a pity indeed, its a limit to the game that I feel shouldn't exist. The OP mats (and cats of course) are simply a tool to make people fight over OP's and give the game an extra facet, but some of us simply aren't interested in that facet of the game.

If you lose you OP you lose the mats, so much for being a master crafter, you can't craft using recipes you can't possibly get mats for.

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

Master crafters can ask those mats in payment for their unique weapons or armor, created with mat recipies only they know :p

and if i know most guilds. They would happily pay ;)

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

Well, this may be the case on Arispotle.
It certainly is a bit different on Leanon. Of course we´ve got our fair share of OP conflicts, but even Guilds without OPs can quite easily acquire these special weapons/materials, by trading them at the player driven "free Merchants-Guild" events each week.

As for finding a crafter to build them, well... You have but to ask and maybe even meet a price.
This in my opinion should most definitely stay as it is, for these people truly have earned their mastership
and truly deserve to be asked for their favor.
Of what worth is a title when you can acquire it by simple grind and just copying recipes everyone else will know soon too.
What will you gain from having a few letters above your head state that you´re a "Master Crafter", if this in essence only means that you´ve grinded through a certain amount of levels? A hollow victory in my book at best.
There are only a few true Masters on each server and it should stay that way! For realisms and fairness sake.
Respect were its due, I say.

CU
Acridiel

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

Hmm, and how do you become a Master to learn to make these weapons that you will use to trade for the mats to make the weapons? Ask the Masters? Sorry, it's all secret, no new Masters allowed!

There are Masters and there are "Masters." The "Masters" are the ones who create the recipes, who experiment with new and unusual combinations of mats, who fail 999 times out of 1000, but that 1000th times is a true reflection of their "Mastery." Merely learning a recipe created by another doesn't make one a "Master", or even a Master, it makes one a pupil, an acolyte, a follower! By limiting the oportunities this way we end up with the old "Masters" and just a flock of followers, but never new "Masters." There is no room or opportunity for new "Masters" in the system, its a system designed to prevent them, not encourage them.


Agreed entirely.


And ten times agreed, but there should be opportunity for anyone, if they are willing to put the research and time into it, to become a true Master, quite often a true master is only recognised as such long after they are gone. I have stated here before that I hate Mastery that is the result of grind, grind, grind, and not hard work and research, but further, imagination, learning, innovation should also be part of it, and without the possibility of innovation from newcomers there will be no new masters.

To artificially limit the possibility of Mastership simply because you believe that there should only be X number of true "Masters" per server is a very bad idea, in fact it then becomes as stifling as those other MMO's I detest. You may just end up driving away someone who could show even the old "Masters" that they truly have more to learn. If someone has the dedication, intelligence and skill to "discover" their own recipes that are as good as or even better than the old "Masters" recipes then they should have the opportuniy to do so, if they then choose to keep those recipes secret that is their right, they will become a new "Master."

But by limiting certain mats to OP's and therefore Guilds and therefore only the Masters in those guilds then nothing is possible. Sure make mats hard to get, rare, expensive, only able to be dug by Master foragers, only found in one spot on the entire panet of Atys, that then becomes an opportunity for Master foragers to excel, but not make them impossible for a rising crafter to obtain and experiment with.

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

I´m a bit confused by your way of arguing, but I´ll try to follow ;)
Who said that there were no more Masters allowed?
Everyone is allowed to excel in his path, he/she needs only a certain commitment to get through it. More than is required to grind.


Hmhm, I think there´s room enough, only limited opportunity to acquire enough material to experiment with. That is true. But well, again I must point to the commitment/persistence factor. If you truly want to become a Master in every sense of the word, go out and "write your own story, get on with the "Quest" for mastery" and trade, cajole or do whatever it takes to become a true Master! Patience, young Padawn ;)


First, who "belives that there should be only a limited number of Masters"?
Who said that?
I think what was said was rather: "At the moment there IS only a certain mumber... and the way these people gained their mastery should stay as it was."
These guys didn´t get their "true Mastery building kit" gift wrapped under the Christmasstree ;) They were persistent and committed to their cause. They jotted down every single change in a recipes stats on paper or into excel-charts. They pored overt these charts and probably got serious brain-hurt from all the numbers.
So, who´s saying there shouldn´t be new Masters?
Every Apprentice in time has the opportunity to become a Master.
Every single Material can be gained not only from fighting over OPs and occupying them. Ok, if some jerks are to cheap to even trade some of their stuff, there should be something done about it, but not by the games mechanics, but by the Community. Again I do point to the excellent "Free Merchants Project" on Leanon.
It works great.
Anyone interested in it send a PM to Marduk or Dentom.

CU
Acridiel

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

OP mats really aren't that hard to obtain - especially if you're a crafter trying to find an awesome new recipe. The greatest factor in making OP mats hard to get is the quality - if you want q250 vedice, you might sometimes have to sell your soul. If you want q50 vedice, which is just as effective for learning recipes, ask and you will recieve - it's not a particularly sought-after mat, neither are any of the q50s.
Of course, once you've found your amazing recipe, when people want a q250 One Of Those, you tell 'em to bring their own q250 vedice. ;)

I don't think we need pretties and special names and "extras" to make gear look amazing - just hit the info window, and you can see how good the craft is. If everything that matters is damn near max, anyone you show it to will gasp and wet their panties without need for further embellishment.

And it's certainly the case that there are grind masters and real masters. Actually, the other new thread in this board discusses that quite extensively, although not in relation to crafters.

For example, we have a few master HA crafters on Aris, all of whom make very good gear. But if you want your amazing, better-than-the-bandit-lords, PvP HA; you ask Freddy. He's spent a long time developing his recipes, and as such they are the best PvP recipes around.

I'm at 248 desert dig... I will master soon(tm). I know for a fact that Erby is a far more efficient digger than I am, and I have no bloody idea why. I know she'd help me get my stanzas set up better if I asked; but nah, I'm gonna work it out myself. 'Cause right now I'm halfway between a grind master and a proper master, but I wanna end up the latter.

The same can apply to meleers and casters, but I figure that's enough examples for now.

Of course there are always gonna be grind masters, and anyone can become one of those - but it doesn't mean you can't also become a proper master. Yes, some masters guard their secrets carefully - well all the better; Atys' first masters didn't learn from other masters, they worked carefully with their friends and thought long and hard, and worked it out themselves; just as you recommend. I don't see why that's so impossible now. :)

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

maybe for a guildleader of a guild with a Q250 OP...... Checks out Nysha's sig.

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

How much q250 Vedice can I get for three souls? I have some alts I could kill off...

;)

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

Hmm now that's an idea to encorage PvP :-) The ability to collect and trade souls for special mats, let me kill em and get the mats lol.

Hmm, but then we'd have to change the games name, call it Soultrader or something.

Hehe.

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

lol, Moonie, our OP makes q250 bloody greslin. Most useless q250 mats there is :p
I've never actually traded our greslin for anything else... it'd be kinda like swapping a toothbrush for a Mazda.

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

a 5% chance that the forage appears with no risk... Not exactly useless if you are a forager with a habbit of chatting too much :)

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

LOL Nysha we traded 10 Q200 lichen for 10 of your greslin picks. So I got 10 toothbrushes and you got 10 Mazdas? I must really like clean teeth.:)-Kil

Re: Ryzom post on Massive. com
 

lol, my point is that there's no point it being q250 when it's greslin :p
Apparently Kil, but then I'm not sure that armillo counts as a Mazda... (stupid analogy for me create in the first place =D)