Senator Dios is taking a trip..

[Tidings]

Homins, here is a message which I have recently received from Senator Dios:

"To all Homins, Kami, Karavan, Neutrals and all those that attended my past two conferences in Fairhaven and Pyr.

I have reviewed with my Emperor your comments and concerns. The Emperor has thoughtfully read them and drafted a letter to the other three leaders of our nations to ascertain their feelings on this matter.

I intend to take the Emperor’s letter and a copy of the past proceedings to the other rulers of Atys for their review and additional comments.

I am therefore asking for a group of brave Homins to escort me from Pyr to Yrkanis and from there, after I have consulted with the King and Queen, to continue on to Fairhaven. There I will converse with my old friend the Governor - Ailan, the Lady of Loria and Rehn Kirran her Deputy.

Inspector Ulyros has expressed interest in joining us, as he wishes to talk with me concerning the Assassin and is additionally looking for Wormbreath in the Yrkanis area. I will therefore ask for some of you to act as Leaders in our Trek, to allow Ulyros and I to discuss those matters along the road.

At Fairhaven I will rest for a while and then I intend to continue my Trek onwards to Zorai and finally return to Pyr.

All Homins that wish to help, please meet at the Cerakos fire gate in Pyr on Saturday the 20th January at 7:00pm GMT (2:00pm EST) for Arispotle and Sunday the 21st at 7:00pm GMT (2:00pm EST) for Cho.

This will be a fine opportunity to show that Kami, Karavan and Neutrals can work together, and on the way we may even remove some of the Kitin menace that threatens us all.

Also, let me mention that this would be a fine way for all Homins to lend a hand in helping our younger Homins, fresh from the Rangers Camp, to reach the other lands.

I will spend 45 minutes with the king in Yrkanis to convey my message from the Emperor, this would be a good time for you all to enjoy the city and see what the merchants have to offer."

[iphdrunk]

(slightly offtopic and OOC)

I don't pretend to sound as a troll, but please accept my minor feedback regarding these events -- which I applaud -- and the political situation in Atys.

One special aspect, regardless of gameplay mechanics, is the official (as in the 4 race leaders of homin nations) status regarding Neutrals/Hominists/Trytonists. It is clear that they exist. The subtle point here in particular, its whether the 4 leaders recognize them or not. Let me explain: it shocks me a bit that Senator Dios, in its speeches, is actually mentioning the word "Neutral" at the same level than Kami/Karavan, apparently opposing one important document (as important as the Declaration of Independance for the yanks ) which clearly states that:

"The New Treaty

We the undersigned being the chief representatives of our races gathered here together, declare that in perpetuity,

I. All Homins of whatever race or religious persuasion owe initial allegiance to their Faith. Two Faiths are recognized;

The Faith of the Kami with Ma-Duk as the Head of the Faith.
The Faith of the Karavan with Jena as the Head of the Faith. "

This document, signed by Emperor Dexton, and unless I am mistaken, clearly states that only two faiths are recognized. the fact that senator Dios mentions Neutrals seems to be incompatible with the treaty that the Emperor signed, and from a higher point of view and OOC, highlights the lack of official status of Neutrals.

I personally consider the role of neutrals as important, and I would truly appreciate if this could be clarified, ideally In Game, in the form of a speech or a series of "live events". I would not want to turn this thread into a flame. Personally either way would be fine, I am not opposed at the idea of officially recognizing the role of neutrals in game (or officially IG *banning* them - it makes an interesting roleplay setting. Trytonists should be like a secret sect, not publically announced)

Yours,

[andypur1]

Originally Posted by iphdrunk

(slightly offtopic and OOC)

I don't pretend to sound as a troll, but please accept my minor feedback regarding these events -- which I applaud -- and the political situation in Atys.

One special aspect, regardless of gameplay mechanics, is the official (as in the 4 race leaders of homin nations) status regarding Neutrals/Hominists/Trytonists. It is clear that they exist. The subtle point here in particular, its whether the 4 leaders recognize them or not. Let me explain: it shocks me a bit that Senator Dios, in its speeches, is actually mentioning the word "Neutral" at the same level than Kami/Karavan, apparently opposing one important document (as important as the Declaration of Independance for the yanks ) which clearly states that:

"The New Treaty

We the undersigned being the chief representatives of our races gathered here together, declare that in perpetuity,

I. All Homins of whatever race or religious persuasion owe initial allegiance to their Faith. Two Faiths are recognized;

The Faith of the Kami with Ma-Duk as the Head of the Faith.
The Faith of the Karavan with Jena as the Head of the Faith. "

This document, signed by Emperor Dexton, and unless I am mistaken, clearly states that only two faiths are recognized. the fact that senator Dios mentions Neutrals seems to be incompatible with the treaty that the Emperor signed, and from a higher point of view and OOC, highlights the lack of official status of Neutrals.

I personally consider the role of neutrals as important, and I would truly appreciate if this could be clarified, ideally In Game, in the form of a speech or a series of "live events". I would not want to turn this thread into a flame. Personally either way would be fine, I am not opposed at the idea of officially recognizing the role of neutrals in game (or officially IG *banning* them - it makes an interesting roleplay setting. Trytonists should be like a secret sect, not publically announced)

Yours,

But surely those homins who are of neither 'official' faith, could be seen as being non-religious, in which case clause 1 of the agreement would not apply to them. In which case, they owe their allegiance firstly to their nation of choice.

All I think that this announcement brings to the fore, is that our leaders realise that there are homins who follow neither kami nor karavan, but are still included in their thoughts. As it stands though, these homins would be 'faithless' whether they are hominists, trytonists, areligious, can't be bothered, ...

Maybe there will now be 20 atys' years of discussions and committee meetings until a new version of clause I is produced mentioning those homin who have chosen to follow neither religion.

[iphdrunk]

Originally Posted by andypur1

Maybe there will now be 20 atys' years of discussions and committee meetings until a new version of clause I is produced mentioning those homin who have chosen to follow neither religion.

Of course but if this is what Real Life politicians spend hours doing and get paid a gazilion bucks for it, why not?
Guess how many man/month can be spent on nitpicking one-liner clause or a simple clause in a license such as GPL
Don't forget the Karavan clause about PR has been discussed to death, justifying a mention during a live event.

"whatever religious persuasion (...) owe initial allegiance to one of the two official faith" , more or less
seems to imply (grossly) "whatever religious persuasion" -> whatever you may think of religion, and to me, includes non-religious, you should owe allegiance blah blah to Kami or Karavan.

Aaanyway... I think this is a nice excuse for another event and get some IG event concerning Yrkanis Dexton etc so they officially state about Neutrality (whether it is widely accepted, applauded, tolerated, persecuted, banned, forbidden, etc., coverning all the meanings of neutrality). Citizens must question their politicians so they clearly state their position. In any way, my opinion stands, Dios speech seems to no adhere to the treaty, and no one really knows what he means by "Neutrals" (in my view, simply meaning unfactioned players)... but I wish we followed this path in a set of events.

[andypur1]

Originally Posted by iphdrunk

Of course but if this is what Real Life politicians spend hours doing and get paid a gazilion bucks for it, why not? Guess how many math/month can be spent on a one-liner clause , or a simple clause in a license such as GPL but "whatever religious persuasion (...) owe initial allegiance to one of the two official religions, more or less" seems to imply (grossly) "whatever religious persuasion" -> whatever you may think of religion, you should owe allegiance blah blah to Kami or Karavan.

Originally Posted by Tidings

I. All Homins of whatever race or religious persuasion owe initial allegiance to their Faith. Two Faiths are recognized;

But I read the 'initial allegiance' as meaning faith first, then race, not meaning everyone is either Kami or Karavan at the start. Our esteemed leaders only recognise two official faiths, but I don't think that the wording 'disallows' any other religious alignment; such homins just falling between the cracks in the wording. I do agree that it is a badly worded clause though

Damn, I'm starting to sound like a lawyer

[iphdrunk]

Originally Posted by andypur1

I do agree that it is a badly worded clause though

Hehe, and regardless of the clause, paraphrasing from the speech Dios gave: "welcome my friends, I am gratified to see so many of you from both the Kami, Karavan and Neutral factions" Beeeeeeeeeep!. Neutral faction? A faction? recognized by a Fyros senator, despite the treaty signed by the emperor? who wrote this speech, Dios himself? he was not spanked by Dexton?

[iphdrunk]

Originally Posted by andypur1

But I read the 'initial allegiance' as meaning faith first, then race, not meaning everyone is either Kami or Karavan at the start. Our esteemed leaders only recognise two official faiths, but I don't think that the wording 'disallows' any other religious alignment

Agreed and perfectly valid interpretation. But in my view, this should be clarified. My point goes more in the line that if leaders don't recognize a faction/group/religion/sect, you don't mention it during an official political speech. People whisper.