Outpost Battles - Concept & Documentation Updated

[lawrence]

We've just updated the document that outlines our concept for outpost battles in detail, there's a couple minor changes:

Originally Posted by Nevrax

Update of The Outposts Battle Concept Document

We've just updated the Outposts battle concept document with some minor design modifications made during development; the changes are highlighted in the document, to allow you to find them quickly if you have already read the first version.

Link: http://www.ryzom.com/?page=news&id=1441

[sx4rlet]

*cough cough*

What about neutrality and diplomacy?
(I might have read something that there are players who like that. I think it somewhere in some threads about Ep2...)

[xenofur]

read the title, not "Outposts Concept Document", but "Outposts Battle Concept Document"

[svayvti]

Maybe it something should be made mention of Outposts beyond PvP.

Since supposedly once recently there is something and a lot of people right now are fed up with the implementation of EP2... you should give them something to hope for if you can.

[ncrijns]

It sounds.. erm, utterly complicated.
But, analyses and critisism, for anyone concerned or interested to read my ramblings.

Going by the numbers..
1. Declaring War
24 hours declaration...
This is going to be, and going to stay, an advantage for attacking guilds, as they can plan an attack for weeks ahead and only have to declare the day before the planned attack. The defence will be tougher, specially for smaller guilds who can't field many people in short amounts of times.

On a side note, who does the declarations? Guild leader, High officer, officer, or any random member? Random members would be abit.. catastrofic to say the least.

And I read notes! Yes it's true.. Here's another concern, if the guilds can form temporary alliances for attacking, who gets the spoils (the outpost) since only 1 guild can get it.. The biggest guild? The guild who killed the most guards? Or have the allied attackers arm wrestle when they win?

On the updated text: "During the first 24 hours.." Does first mean there will be more 24 hour periods? Give a guild some rest I'd say! Attacking is hard, and after beating a succesfull on the defenders are on alert for new ones.

2. Attack battle
This one seems pretty clear, much thought gone into it, I can tell. However! You have to battle for 2 hours straight?! Wave after wave after wave after wave..

Does the attacking team get some sort of message during these 2 hours that they reached minimum threshold and are now fighting to make it harder for the defenders?
A "You have defeated the defenders forces! And can continue to strengthen your hold on the outpost." message of a sort. That would be nice.

3. Defense battle
See point 3. As these 2 phases are actually exactly the same. Only switch 'attackers' with 'defenders'.

4. Minimum threshold
Yay for this! Only.. how many battle levels are there anyway? 1, 2, 3, pi? I take it this is calculated by the number of guard squads and the level of the guard quad, or even the area. If there is a way to see this for the defenders it would be great, Not only the 'basic' threshold (without any perks) but also the upgraded stuff and such.

5. Buying squads
Arrr matey! Let's spend me dappers! Arr!
Default... both sides... relatively weak...buy new ones..
Ok so the defenders and attackers get squads. First for the attackers to whack the defender squads, and then for the defenders to whack the attackers squads. But both can buy the same squads? At the same outpost? I think here more explaining needs to be done. Because then when the attackers win and have alot of dappers they can just buy victory.

The defenders have to pay upkeep for the squads they keep in preparation, but the mercenary troops of the attackers come from... the Great Yubo in the Sky! Or some other place..

6. Squads management
I went ahead of myself on point 5 I think. But what the heck!
A squad is paid when it spawns, and is reimbursed at the end of the round if at least one of its members is still alive.
So here a defender guild can basicly put as much guard squads in the waiting list to throw themselves at the attackers. After all, when all the squad members are dead, no need to pay!

No mentioning the attacking guild squads here? I guess no plans yet then?

7. Squads power
Crystal clear for a change!

8. Conflict area
Good, I like this one. Points to clear up though: can someone run out of the conflict area, wait and rest just before the few minutes are up and rejoin the battle? Because then when things are bad everyone but one, to keep the battle going, can run out, heal up and run back in.

Can the one outside the perimeter heal inside the perimeter without fear of the guard squads attacking him/her?

------------

Overall conclusion:
Good thinking, I like the battle concept to be fair, only lots is unclear. Please, more information!

And are we getting a concept of what else we can do with an Outpost? Besides attacking it? Or did I miss that somewhere?

EDIT: The [discuss it!] linkie is missing! Oh noes! The horror!

[thurgond]

Originally Posted by ncrijns

6. Squads management
I went ahead of myself on point 5 I think. But what the heck!
A squad is paid when it spawns, and is reimbursed at the end of the round if at least one of its members is still alive.
So here a defender guild can basicly put as much guard squads in the waiting list to throw themselves at the attackers. After all, when all the squad members are dead, no need to pay!

It would make more sense if the owning guild only pays if the squad is wiped out. I.e.: A squad is paid when it spawns, and the owning guild receives a refund at the end of the round if at least one of its members is still alive.

This way a guild has to have enough dappers on hand to pay any non-default squads it wants, but if it wins that round it gets some dappers back.

[seawe]

24 hours notice is way! too short. How about a week??

That way players who only play on weekends can get involved and in the know. And guilds can email and get organized?
this is one of those things that can't be 'tested' on ATS.

[svayvti]

Based on the poor showing of Outposts updates, I would suggest the implementation and release target be pushed back until more work can be done for it to release it complete rather than a repeat of EP2 and just another gank fest.

I would suggest focusing on the fame revamp and fixing up and releasing more rites this could hopefully double for the diplomatic option and guild missions that were supposed to originally be released with outposts and that a lot of people seem to be waiting for.

Also, I would suggest working on the raid engine more and more dynamic encounters like invasions. This was a major selling point of Outposts and what a lot of people anticipated from Beta. Make so that outposts can launch with at least the tribe attacks, if not hopefully the Kitin raids and Goo attacks.

Maybe take the time to balance and revamp foraging better and find a role for them to play with Outposts. Hopefully in both the diplomacy conquest and a reward for owning an outpost.

[rytall]

I think that the 24 hour advanced warning more true to a real world scenario when it comes to battle.

The attacker in a real battle doesnt phone up the other side to tell them that they are going to attack.
I think that something like this would encourage better communication between guilds to regulate and defend in a hurry. Helping each other.
This could however help the attackers guild to communicate with other guilds, setting attack times on certain outpost at the same time. Ah, what would you do then? Plenty of room for strategic attacks on the attackers part.

Sounds like a good idea to me, but what do I know. I'm only a lev 70 magic user, and I am very new to the game.

The one thing that concerns me though is the stale sounding format of attack/counter-attack. Two hours of battle. I'm assuming that is only going to happen if the attackers get pushed back?

[blaah]

Originally Posted by rytall

The one thing that concerns me though is the stale sounding format of attack/counter-attack. Two hours of battle. I'm assuming that is only going to happen if the attackers get pushed back?

nope, attack/defence phase is gonna last 2 hours (not sure 2 hours is right) whether attackers/defenders show up or not.

it's the time attackers/defenders can try their luck to push threshold higher than other party did. higher/equal threshold determines who gets outpost after all timers has run out.