The Kami vs Karavan situation?

[riveit]

Originally Posted by rothimar

[b]Current Outpost Holdings by Declared Faction

[b]Karavan: 16 Outposts

Kami: 9 Outposts

Neutral: 3 Outposts

As Musmus has said, the situation is more complex than simply Karavan v Kami. Two of the neutral-listed guilds (factioned for tps-only) have declared Kamist allegiances and typically fight on the Kamist side. Three of the Karavan guilds above have recently fought against the other Karavan guilds. So if you counted outpost owning guilds on side A and side B of a battle, it would be more like 13 vs. 12, with 2 of the remaining 3 declared Neutral outpost owners fighting situationally. Also, some guilds only fight on the defense, so defence has another advantage. In short, the politics is too complicated to sum up in a couple of numbers.

[rothimar]

Originally Posted by riveit

In short, the politics is too complicated to sum up in a couple of numbers.

Of that, I have no doubt whatsoever.

[rothimar]

Originally Posted by rushin

i am actually bored of the retoric on both sides, starting to dislike it as much as i dislike politics

Is there a difference?

[grimjim]

Originally Posted by rothimar

As for the point someone mentioned regarding faction vs timezone... is there really that much of a RL regional split in factional alignment?
[/color]

Yes.

There's a buttload of factors involved in the inequality.
From what I've observed there has been a slight overall swing back towards Kami but it hasn't reached equilibrium yet and a lot of the newer, younger, less experienced players seem to be the Kami ones.

A short summary rather than the full long analysis.

* Matis aesthetics seem to appeal to more players, who go Karavan.
* The Karavan ethics/style appeal more to PvP oriented players and more competition/PvP oriented players.
* Karavan ethics/rp appeal more to the more competition/PvP oriented US playstyle. (Contributing to the timezone problem).
* The Karavan faction (meaning Matis really) have the existing weight of numbers and greater Crystal supply. This creates a positive feedback loop of accumulating power.

There's other factors but you get the gist. There's a whole bunch of relatively small factors that combine to create a bias and that bias is self-supporting through accumulated crystal availability and number of people.

Solutions are trickier to come up with.

[sx4rlet]

Originally Posted by sprite

And well, to be honest, the less I say about my opinions about trykers the better

hehe, that is why they are trykers
Then again, better not ask most trykers about the matis either...

[dakhound]

Originally Posted by sprite

I'm pretty tired of the rhetoric too... and I think the whole "we have so much fewer people come join us and save the day !" is the worse of the two... It just gets a little tiring when all of my friends have given up defending their position because they get slammed all day by people who are rapidly coming to the position where they could take all the outposts on Atys with ease, thus causing more new players to join the so-called underdogs, and giving the anti-ka players even more strength.

We are nothing close to being able to take all the outposts with ease spriteh and you know it. Even the first round win at Zo-Kian was something extraordinary as players who had quit the game came back to fight for us and attempt to win our first victory in a very very long time.

You all keep posting on how the KA have hardly won any outposts in the last few months can anyone remember the last time the kami won one from the karavan? in fact we won the first round for the first time in an age a few weeks ago, thats a damn long way away from winning "all the outposts on atys".

Yes we have tried some outlandish tactics to win outposts as we have been unable to find a simple answer to the overwhelming numbers you can field at ANY time. As I know you well I'll trust you on the opinion that the numbers were equal for the recent (crashed) lost valley stronghold outpost battle but as you are fully aware from participating in prior outpost battle you need the additional 30 high level players to handle the guards past say TH6.

We have seen a few people joining "the underdog" recently but I see equal amounts of people running about yrk. Please dont make out like you KA guys are so hard done too, you have great organisation (something we need to work on), you have a free reign during american hours (something we find hard work on) and you as the KA (excluding kamivan as you call them) own more outpost than our entire faction. I applaud the work you guys have already done to get where you are and I will do my damn best to beat you back

[grimjim]

Originally Posted by sprite

- attacking at 9amUK (or other rediculous times). Knowing that they have far more EU players than the alliance, the theory goes that they'll have the advantage. Due to whatever reasons, this hasn't worked yet. An extra note for everyone here is that OPs have two phases for a reason. The attackers sets the times of the attack phase to suit them, and the defender sets the defence phase to suit them. This is what makes it fair :| Usually a smart person will set times to suit both its EU and NA allies wherever possible so obviously will be able to bring more people to the fight than if it was one or the other, but this is balanced by the fact that the enemy has the same advantage, both in that phase and in that they can pick when to set the defence if one is necessary. This has never resulted in a lost outpost.

You can't be serious with this one. The Matis Alliance vigorously exploits the timezone issue most of the time as well. That's not a one-sided thing. The size difference is such though that the MA can defend adequetely (with guards) at any hour.

[sprite]

Originally Posted by dakhound

I applaud the work you guys have already done to get where you are and I will do my damn best to beat you back

That's all I can ask for

Originally Posted by grimjim

You can't be serious with this one. The Matis Alliance vigorously exploits the timezone issue most of the time as well. That's not a one-sided thing

What part of "Now the alliance may or may not have done similar/identical/just as bad things before as well" and OPs have two phases for a reason. The attackers sets the times of the attack phase to suit them, and the defender sets the defence phase to suit them. This is what makes it fair" didn't you understand?

[dakhound]

Originally Posted by sprite

The attackers sets the times of the attack phase to suit them, and the defender sets the defence phase to suit them. This is what makes it fair

situation at present

7pm - 8pm bst attack is approx 60-80 vs 60-80
3am bst is approx 30 vs 100

its no big secret this and will continue to be used against us, but hey I cant blame you

[akm72]

Originally Posted by sprite

Put simply, the "KA" has by and large given up on defending itself on these forums because we get slammed all the time...

<snipped>

...And well, to be honest, the less I say about my opinions about trykers the better

*plays violin to Spriteh's lamentation*