Can we play too ?

[mugendo]

Originally Posted by geezas

/tar rothimar
/agree

nicely put

Yup....seconded

[mugendo]

Originally Posted by geezas

The established playerbase has played for a while, they know the game mechanics and the reason for them. Some played in the beta or are active testers on the ATS. This gives insight into the environment and because of a the better understanding gives a more balanced and reasonable viewpoint.

But it can give a narrower view, a longing for old way's and tradition, witch if nevrax listens to older players only, can hamper gemedevelopment.

New players come from different environments, are familiar with some game mechanics, might have a fresher look on things and are generaly excited about the new environment. This gives them enthusiasm and new idea's, or features they miss that where in another game they played.

This fresh perspective can flow into daydreams about the perfect environment and a featurelist that new players wish for that isn't realy appropriate in world. If nevrax would listen to new players it could harm the world the older players live in.

So all in all I would say that nevrax should never listen to any group of players or take anything we say seriously because they can never understand what motivates the idea. Developing a MMO looks to me like trying to herd cats, so providing a environment in witch cats can have fun and not bore them seems like a good strategy to me.

OOPS, ....Established should read Active it seems. Nice to have it pointed out I have a cynical view
Am I in danger of being labelled 'old school ?'

[geezas]

Originally Posted by mugendo

OOPS, ....Established should read Active it seems. Nice to have it pointed out I have a cynical view
Am I in danger of being labelled 'old school ?'

Active and playing for more then X months, but that would become a discussion about semantics and how to define groups, and cats are not grouped easily by behavior

[mugendo]

Originally Posted by geezas

Active and playing for more then X months, but that would become a discussion about semantics and how to define groups, and cats are not grouped easily by behavior

Yes, I see I ask the impossible...but I can fall back on blind faith and hope (If I can find them)

[raynes]

Originally Posted by geezas

I'll be gone so fast you won't even see a bye bye post on the boards

If NPCs start giving out gear on the mainland that is better then crafted stuff what reason is there to stay? If yubos drop daggers why make weapons at all? Just because some idiot thought it would be cool if players got a direct award for killing a rat and let them drop swords does not mean we have to have it everybloodywhere. (can you imagine this person sitting behind a desk thinking up the idea that a 20cm rat can walk around with and drop a 60cm sword when killed ? must be one hell of a genius)

Originally Posted by geezas

I hope there is a cool mat there somewhere. You want a epic struggle for gear, check out these fine games:
WOW
Everquest
Anarchy-online
All the grinding for uber gear you will ever want.
Just because you don' like mats and want your instant gratification NOW NOW NOW like a little kid wanting a sweet ...

You know you should really try educating yourself on the matter before you post things. No where has anyone said anything about a yubo dropping a dagger. In the Kitin Lair, Kitin are not going to drop weapons. You will be sent on missions by npc rangers. Upon completion are rewarded with items that may possibly include armor and weapons. So what you are talking about is not and will not happen.

I'm not asking for instant gratification. I am asking that when I do something as a melee warrior that I can get something I can use. Not something that I have to give to another person to use. Something I can use.

The other thing that people seem not to be mentioning is that Ryzom has had events that have give loot out as rewards. There was one invasion event where you earned tokens that you turned into NPC's for loot. I remember I got an axe as a reward. No one complained about getting loot. People loved it. It did not kill the game, it did not end crafting. It did not kill the economy. People did complain about the implementation, but not the actual loot. You can read some about it here:
http://www.ryzom.com/forum/archive/i...p?t-10234.html

[iphdrunk]

Originally Posted by raynes

The other thing that people seem not to be mentioning is that Ryzom has had events that have give loot out as rewards. There was one invasion event where you earned tokens that you turned into NPC's for loot. I remember I got an axe as a reward. No one complained about getting loot. People loved it. It did not kill the game, it did not end crafting. It did not kill the economy.

Rather than re-stating the same args again (anyone can check the appropriate thread), just mention that that event lasted one week and the rewards are pretty unique and players have no means to replace them when worn out. That's the huge difference. If anyone can buy a Kami or Karavan shield at will (specially with no requirements) is the death of shield crafters.

If that event dagger was easily replaceable, I would not craft a single dagger again (q200, higher speed and damage than any supreme q250 crafted one) best boosts. What's the deal? what's the point of being a dagger crafter if I can -- assuming the event was permanent -- kill kitin and have one in 3 days? on the other hand, having it crafted requires boss mats that need a team and prolly days to kill the bosses when spawned.

People did complain about the implementation, but not the actual loot.

Hey, some did complain, including myself.. And spen like 40M for a couple of daggers, specially since they cannot be replaced.

[zanthar]

Originally Posted by geezas

I hope there is a cool mat there somewhere. You want a epic struggle for gear, check out these fine games:

WOW
Everquest
Anarchy-online

All the grinding for uber gear you will ever want.


Just because you don' like mats and want your instant gratification NOW NOW NOW like a little kid wanting a sweet ...

You forgot one SWG!!

[geezas]

Originally Posted by raynes

You know you should really try educating yourself on the matter before you post things. No where has anyone said anything about a yubo dropping a dagger. In the Kitin Lair, Kitin are not going to drop weapons. You will be sent on missions by npc rangers. Upon completion are rewarded with items that may possibly include armor and weapons. So what you are talking about is not and will not happen.

The example still holds, a NPC character gives out a mission to hunt down X number of kitin in the lair( or something similar) if done you will receive a item. If that item is comparable or better then the same item crafted by a homin, every crafter who has leveled up to craft that item will get the shaft. Since they can never compete with that NPC.

Originally Posted by raynes

I'm not asking for instant gratification. I am asking that when I do something as a melee warrior that I can get something I can use. Not something that I have to give to another person to use. Something I can use.

But you can use materials (if you leveled up the skill to make use of them) My argument hangs on the idea that most things you do ingame are in a group and a diverse group can make use of allmost anything. It is not about what one type of player can use but what the group can take and make into usefull items themselves. Being selfsufficient and not having to run up to a NPC and having to do a mission for a weapon.

Originally Posted by raynes

The other thing that people seem not to be mentioning is that Ryzom has had events that have give loot out as rewards. There was one invasion event where you earned tokens that you turned into NPC's for loot. I remember I got an axe as a reward. No one complained about getting loot. People loved it. It did not kill the game, it did not end crafting. It did not kill the economy. People did complain about the implementation, but not the actual loot. You can read some about it here:
http://www.ryzom.com/forum/archive/i...p?t-10234.html

Yep I know, I participated in the event. You will find some posts from me in threads about that subject. The event was special in a certain way, the items that where earned all degrade when used so they eventually leave the game world and you can't get them anymore. They where a one time reward for services to ones nation.

[iwojimmy]

Ryzom seems to be relying heavily on word-of-mouth advertising.. I certainly havent seen much else for it.

Word of Mouth in turn, requires SATISFIED HAPPY players. And Dissatisfied players arent going to do Ryzom any good at all, especially the ones that say they were playing a wonderful game for 2 years, and then the company rewrote the rules, changed the environment, and threw away all the investment the player had put into the game.
This is what happened after episode 2, its what happened after patch 1, and we are begging Nevrax not to do it again.

Nevrax should pay heed to all the SWG refugees here. Ryzom is a refeshing change from the rest of the market, dont poison the well by pandering to "lowest common denominator".

[raynes]

Originally Posted by geezas

The example still holds, a NPC character gives out a mission to hunt down X number of kitin in the lair( or something similar) if done you will receive a item. If that item is comparable or better then the same item crafted by a homin, every crafter who has leveled up to craft that item will get the shaft. Since they can never compete with that NPC.

But you can use materials (if you leveled up the skill to make use of them) My argument hangs on the idea that most things you do ingame are in a group and a diverse group can make use of allmost anything. It is not about what one type of player can use but what the group can take and make into usefull items themselves. Being selfsufficient and not having to run up to a NPC and having to do a mission for a weapon.

Yep I know, I participated in the event. You will find some posts from me in threads about that subject. The event was special in a certain way, the items that where earned all degrade when used so they eventually leave the game world and you can't get them anymore. They where a one time reward for services to ones nation.

No, I can't use materials. I only have 2-handed melee leveled. So I would have to take the mats to a crafter. Once the crafter has it, they are going to charge me money to make what I need. So to argue that I (or those who did not level crafting) can use mats is wrong. There is no reason why after 200 levels of fighting I should be given something I have to pay someone to make useful to me.

Writing this brought two questions to my mind.

1) If I get mats and it costs me 10 mil to make armor with them at a crafter, is the crafter going to put in their own money to make me my equipment? Or am I going to be forced to pay to use my reward? Is that honestly fair, that I spend 3 days fighting Kitin and have to fork over a ton of my money to use my reward?

2) If I give the crafter my mats to use to craft something for me, they will get xp from that. Why should someone who didn't do any of the work to get the reward get any benefit from it?