The DP system should really be done away with. This is why...

[katriell]

Every step taken to ease Ryzom's gameplay is a step toward fostering the corrupted mentality you mention, Razorfang. Already Ryzom's community is not what it used to be. Memory suggests and I'd bet it's correct that that community was at its best when the game mechanics were at their most difficult.

[razorfang]

Originally Posted by katriell

Every step taken to ease Ryzom's gameplay is a step toward fostering the corrupted mentality you mention, Razorfang. Already Ryzom's community is not what it used to be. Memory suggests and I'd bet it's correct that that community was at its best when the game mechanics were at their most difficult.

That's not how I remember it Katriell, it was at it's best pre-patch 1. After that with dwindling numbers pockets of good friends sprung up. When PvP (Kami vs Kara) was added it to tore through the community, there was lots of bad blood then. Which eventually lead to some PvE people leaving the game. Cats were another thing that caused bad blood when introduced. The community as it is now is probably about the lowest in number I've seen it.

[chibiarc]

Well put and sadly 100% correct. Yet it is awesome how the community still manages after all the silly things thrown on it. I hope we get something done right soon. Because you forgot one last thing, the recent Kitin "Invasion" with the Kitin of the Depth, causing a mass exodus of veterans and killing off all new players.

[acridiel]

First, yes I tend to get a bit emotive around such topics. *sigh*
But thats me for you.
But I´ve read all ypur posts, and well, that´s how I understood them.
And that´s the reason I got a bit worked up about them.
Sorry if I misinterpreted somme stuff, but to me at least some statements did not seem very well thought out.
And, even a bit emotive too.

Originally Posted by razorfang

I'm sorry too, because reading though your post seems to me you did not read all of mine. Your reply seems more emotive than factual. Yeah, i've run around to give a res also on many occasions. But it's seems to me it's a bit like super hero to the rescue and the community seems to like that. If you had read all my posts you would know that I already said that this game is not really suitable for power-leveling although it could be done with a healing bot but don't really see the point tbh, I only power-level alts in quest driven games.

I know that you´re not into Power-leveling. You said so.
So why do you you propose things that help this practice grow?
At least the way I see it. And besides, you´re not arguing in your favor, you´re just discrediting my arguments by saying they´re emotive.

And in addition, what´s wrong with a bit of "Superhero" feeling?
I like it when people are grateful and thank me for saving their butts from some DP. Please, state an argument against it and not just call my statements "emotive" without actually replying to them.

Originally Posted by razorfang

Sounds to me you believe you need punishment so as to learn from your mistakes. I really don't see why that should be the case. As for excitement, if DP is what floats your boat then I can't argue with that.

Like I said. When there´s nothing to risk, why even risk it?
Or, in the other extreme, why even care about doing things that are dangerous?
If there are in effect no "mistakes" to make, what do you learn?
If players were able to die and die and die and die some more, without any kind of reprisal whatsoever, well.. why then let them die in the first place?
Just make everyone un-killable and thats it then. When there´s nothing to loose from any activity, why then even play?
A continuous line of rewards will just get dull and boring very, very fast.
And if that´s "what floats your boat" then I can and will argue against it.

Originally Posted by razorfang

So you are another one that believes they won't play sensibly unless there's some form of punishment in place, try trusting yourself. Only a moron would act in the way you suggest and I don't believe you are that. This seems more of an emotive reply to me.

Again, just calling my point "emotive" and not effectively arguing against it.
But I agree, that playing this way would be quite stupid, yes. And it was meant to overstate the point. And of course there´ll be only a very small minority of people who´d play like that, but what about all others?
Is that really what you want?
As said above, what do we gain from having nothing to loose?
I say, only boredom and repetitive gameplay.

Originally Posted by razorfang

Guess you did not read the thread properly. I'm proposing to do away with Cats because I believe it to be an unfair system, even though this character has pretty much always had access to them. By doubling the xp rate so that it is a fair system to everyone (probably back to the pre-patch 1 rate). But if this was thought to be too quick then double it to 200 and leave the rate as it is from 201 - 250.

Hmhm, I´m having no problem at all getting "Cats".
I´ll just ride some of the Event-Missions and buy them for "Honor Points", or I exchange them for crafted stuff on our player Market.
(And I´m my own guild.)
If doing something for a reward, like "Cats" is too much for some players and they just want them delivered on a silver plate, then I do feel sorry for these people.
But I agree that they are unnecessary.
They are most certainly are one of the less brilliant decisions from Nevrax.

Originally Posted by razorfang

Pre-patch 1 people did level faster, the game manufacturer decided people where leveling too quickly. So they brought in patch 1 which slowed leveling down, made mission rewards pretty much a waste of time and increased the cost of NPC materials by quite a bit. Result about half the player base disappeared almost over night. That should tell you something.

Not quite correct, sorry.
People gained levels faster that is true, but that was due to less XP needed to gain a level and in addition the distribution of Titles was implemented incorrectly, so that you, for example, became a "Destroyer" at level 75 and such. People mostly left because they felt cheated out of the titles they had gained and the levels that were reached and not "translated" into the new system, with more needed XP to the level. And in addition, most MOBs received an HP Boost, heal was "nerfed" and Elemental Magic damage was reduced, so they couldn´t level on the same spots they had leveled before and were reluctant to find new places.
Well, it never bothered me much back then I have to say.
I just kept on playing and saw it as a challenge.

Originally Posted by razorfang

I agree with you the mechanics of some games do lead to selfishness the most successful MMO being one of the worst. Don't think any sensible person would associate quick leveling with a good game ofc it could be, but may also not be. As for power-levelers (me in quest driven games with alts) I level them solo and quickly because there is very little interaction with other players, if they did interact more they would not be power-leveling. Power-leveling is a bit like driving a car along a road you travel all the time, you get to the destination and think oh I don't remember driving here. With Power-leveling your brain is pretty much on automatic at least that's how I find it. Totally not suitable for this game imo.

I agree, that´s why my highest level is 242 in elemental, since yesterday. You can see my join date.
But why then are you proposing to make this game easier to level?
For, if I´m not sorely mistaken, that is what all the changes you propose are all about. I can see no other gain in them, sorry.

Originally Posted by razorfang

I don't like those games much, which is probably why I power-level alts in them anyway.

Huh?
I don´t quite get the sense of that.

Originally Posted by razorfang

Nor do I, but there's many things in history that were reluctant to change in anyway and they became extinct. Personally I don't want that to happen to Ryzom. After all, Ryzom was the first MMO I ever played.

Same here, same here.
It is a tough dilemma.
We want more players. Need them in fact.
But, we don´t want things top change to the level of "those other games" either.
But, "the Masses" want games that "are easy" and will give them gratification all the way, with as little obstacles in the path as possible. If there have to be any hindrances along the way, then they´d pretty please be only at max. knee level, so they can easily step over them and feel like they accomplished a great epic deed.
Booya. -.-

My one and only hope is that VL and his "small team of specialists" manage to find a good path in the middle of both extremes for everyone to travel.

Originally Posted by razorfang

Yeah, agreed that game is one of the worst, even some of the nicer players can get corrupted eventually in that games communities. But I blame the game mechanics more for that, that is where that corruption blossoms from.

Tell me about it.
But if you blame the game mechanics for that, why in heaves then propose to approximate our mechanics to theirs?
That I do not understand in your reasoning, sorry.

Originally Posted by razorfang

It's obvious to me you care a lot about the game, but I knew that anyway as I've kept an eye on the forums even when not playing Ryzom, even though I was not able to post anything. But please Acridiel read my post fully before answering.

So I did, and if I may return the curtsy, please give valid statements or arguments. And do not just reduce my responses to "emotive".
Give valid points and I will follow.

CU
Acridiel

[acridiel]

Originally Posted by chibiarc

Well put and sadly 100% correct. Yet it is awesome how the community still manages after all the silly things thrown on it. I hope we get something done right soon. Because you forgot one last thing, the recent Kitin "Invasion" with the Kitin of the Depth, causing a mass exodus of veterans and killing off all new players.

Yeah... great.
So, no more Invasions anymore!
Get rid of them, so everyone can play unchallenged.
Geez, we already had this conversation.
Deja Vú anyone?

CU
Acridiel

[chibiarc]

Originally Posted by acridiel

Yeah... great.
So, no more Invasions anymore!
get rid of them, so everyone can play unchallenged.

That's not what I said. There were many different reasons for the failure, I'm neither going to start a discussion here. To me a major flaw has been the lack of animation / events / rp with the Invasion aswell as the wide gap between Invasion strength and available players to fight them.

Invasions are good and fun, if done right. I am working currently on a ring scenario and the feedback is 100% positive.

[ajsuk]

What he said. ^^

Invasions get un-fun fast when you're repeatedly trampled without a hope. I like a challenge, not an ass whooping.

Must be nice to be on a server with people.

[0balgus0]

Originally Posted by ajsuk

What he said. ^^

Invasions get un-fun fast when you're repeatedly trampled without a hope. I like a challenge, not an ass whooping.

Must be nice to be on a server with people.

(Jayce, I goin to Leanon. You in?)

[razorfang]

Originally Posted by acridiel

First, yes I tend to get a bit emotive around such topics. *sigh*
But thats me for you.
But I´ve read all ypur posts, and well, that´s how I understood them.
And that´s the reason I got a bit worked up about them.
Sorry if I misinterpreted somme stuff, but to me at least some statements did not seem very well thought out.
And, even a bit emotive too.



I know that you´re not into Power-leveling. You said so.
So why do you you propose things that help this practice grow?
At least the way I see it. And besides, you´re not arguing in your favor, you´re just discrediting my arguments by saying they´re emotive.

And in addition, what´s wrong with a bit of "Superhero" feeling?
I like it when people are grateful and thank me for saving their butts from some DP. Please, state an argument against it and not just call my statements "emotive" without actually replying to them.





Like I said. When there´s nothing to risk, why even risk it?
Or, in the other extreme, why even care about doing things that are dangerous?
If there are in effect no "mistakes" to make, what do you learn?
If players were able to die and die and die and die some more, without any kind of reprisal whatsoever, well.. why then let them die in the first place?
Just make everyone un-killable and thats it then. When there´s nothing to loose from any activity, why then even play?
A continuous line of rewards will just get dull and boring very, very fast.
And if that´s "what floats your boat" then I can and will argue against it.







Again, just calling the argument "emotive" and not effectively arguing against it.
But I agree, that playing this way would be quite stupid, yes. And it was meant to overstate the point. And of course there´ll be only a very small minority of people who´d play like that, but what about all others?
Is that really what you want?
As said above, what do we gain from having nothing to loose?
I say, only boredom and repetitive gameplay.





Hmhm, I´m having no problem at all getting "Cats".
I´ll just ride some of the Event-Missions and buy them for "Honor Points", or I exchange them for crafted stuff on our player Market.
(And I´m my own guild.)
If doing something for a reward, like "Cats" is too much for some players and they just want them delivered on a silver plate, then I do feel sorry for these people.
But I agree that they are unnecessary.
They are most certainly are one of the less brilliant decisions from Nevrax.




Not quite correct, sorry.
People gained levels faster that is true, but that was due to less XP needed to gain a level and in addition the distribution of Titles was implemented incorrectly, so that you, for example, became a "Destroyer" at level 75 and such. People mostly left because they felt cheated out of the titles they had gained and the levels that were reached and not "translated" into the new system, with more needed XP to the level. And in addition, most MOBs received an HP Boost, heal was "nerfed" and Elemental Magic damage was reduced, so they couldn´t level on the same spots they had leveled before and were reluctant to find new places.
Well, it never bothered me much back then I have to say.
I just kept on playing and saw it as a challenge.





I agree, that´s why my highest level is 242 in elemental, since yesterday. You can see my join date.
But why then are you proposing to make this game easier to level?
For, if I´m not sorely mistaken, that is what all the changes you propose are all about. I can see no other gain in them, sorry.



Huh?
I don´t quite get the sense of that.




Same here, same here.
It is a tough dilemma.
We want more players. Need them in fact.
But, we don´t want things top change to the level of "those other games" either.
But, "the Masses" want games that "are easy" and will give them gratification all the way, with as little obstacles in the path as possible. If there have to be any hindrances along the way, then they´d pretty please be only at max. knee level, so they can easily step over them and feel like they accomplished a great epic deed.
Booya. -.-

My one and only hope is that VL and his "small team of specialists" manage to find a good path in the middle of both extremes for everyone to travel.




Tell me about it.
But if you blame the game mechanics for that, why in heaves then propose to approximate our mechanics to theirs?
That I do not understand in your reasoning, sorry.




So I did, and if I may return the curtsy, please give valid statements or arguments. And do not just reduce my responses to "emotive".
Give valid points and I will follow.

CU
Acridiel

*Sigh*
I'm not even going to bother to answer any of your comments, it's just turning into some kind of ping pong match. Anyway with this paste system when you quote something it does not show what you answered and that can easily take it out of context especially if that person wants to.

But sometimes people to close to a problem won't see it.

If people are so entrenched in their we don't want to change anything as we like being elite to new players then so be it.

Let's just sit back and see how long it takes to go the way of the dinosaurs.

[acridiel]

Well, the last "big fight" against the Kitin in Matis was fought by about 30 People.
It worked perfectly, because we took on them one Group at a time, max. two.
We didn´t charge in, we played the tactics game and it worked out quite well.

The big fight against the beasts down in the roots put about 200 Players together I guess.

And of course we had our share of people complaining about the "greys" blocking their favorite level-spots too. But I like to think most took up the challenge and worked together to bring the invasion to its knees. Especially in Fyros and Tryker.

Lenanons population can´t be any bigger or smaller than Arispotles.
More likely smaller.
Unless, those that do post here are the last few to wander the server. 0ô

CU
Acridiel