Moral implications within Ryzom

[glipe]

In the thread that has been closed recently (over foul language and CoC issues, something which I won't really be dealing with myself.) I was asked a question by gaspode concerning the moral right and wrong. It got me to thinking and I came up with this:

There appears to be three levels of morals within Ryzom. At the lowest level there is your character's morals. These are the morals that you portray through your roleplaying of your character. Like Rashan's love of money, or Sanz's pursuit of peace. Then we have game morals. These differ greatly and depend on how you want to play the game. Maybe you want to just harvest and ignore any people crying for a rez or maybe you will run for half a continent just to deliver someone's jewelry for a wedding. At the top level we have our own morality, encompassing our faith and beliefs, our hope and dreams. What people should realise is that, though these morals are connected through the people who play the characters, the level below does not necessarily pass up to the level above. Just because Sanz is ok with killing gingos it does not mean I am ok with killing dogs. Just because I run around in PvP zones doesn't mean that I think people should kill others in real life. But if I was playing a character who thought this, both my low and middle morals would say 'That's ok!'. I happen to play a character who is very into peace so I don't rub people the wrong way that much but I don't mind if people do! http://www.ryzom.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

Here is the reply to the post I was going to post before others got the thread I was going to post it in shut down. If the moderators feel that it is inflamatory, please feel free to close this and delete the text.

Originally Posted by gaspode1

The use of force may well have it's place here as in real life. Possibly more so as this is, in the end, a game and not real life despite the parallels that exist. However, I think that would be best discussed in a separate thread to prevent this one becoming too unwieldy.

I would prefer this thread to concentrate solely on the morality issue.

And in answer to Sanz I can only say; Suppose you work in a shop and you arrive for work one day, and there are 6 people stood at the door who say "Sorry mate but we need the money so we are going to work here now and if you try & come in we will beat you up". You try and go in and get beaten up. Does the fact that they have told you in advance what will happen make what they do morally right?

Ok, to start off with I really respect the way you are structuring everything carefully. You’ve obviously got a good head on your shoulders and are trying to go about things in the best way you see fit. It’s nice to see that you’re not letting things boil down into an ‘I’m right and you’re wrong’ topic.

You compare a real life example to something that is happening in game. While I have no problem with the metaphor or the meaning, I do have an issue with the situation involved. That’s not real life. In real life maybe I’d call the police and spend a long afternoon down-town at the station seeing if I had a case for GBH (with them having threatened my person). Or maybe they’d see me phoning and kick me about a bit. Or maybe I’d just go home and phone my manager to ask what’s going on. But simply enough, the example falls down when you look at it in any detail. Ryzom is not real life and that example is not an accurate representation of what is happening.

You say you want to concentrate on the morality of the situation. Once more, I refer to the above; Ryzom is not real life. Homins do not have the same concerns as us humans. If someone threatens me, as a person, I could die! No respawn, no magic to aid me, no heavy armour to take some of the damage. Imagine the real world was like Atys? Would I really care if some guys were camping out the shop I worked in if I could exist indefinitely without food, water, clothes, money, etc? Or call upon friends to blast them to pieces only to raise them from the dead with a wave of my hand and ask them not to do it again? In Ryzom, we are immortal! I can slay my brother only to have him demolecularise, recorporealise and come back smiling a few seconds later, none the worse for wear. Morals are different on Atys. Killing is the equivalent of chasing someone off. We do not *need* anything to survive, everything we do is a *want*. But this is all besides the point. This is a game.

This game that we play has avatars we contol. The rules of the game tell us what we can and cannot do (no flying, no books, no falling, etc). A set of rules are also set down by the people that run the game, much as you would have with a sport (no kicking or biting (boxing), thou shalt not drag aggro, nor shall thee partake in ‘cliffing’). And there is a set of game morals that has followed with this. People expect a rez if a person near them is in no danger when doing so. It’s bad to kill characters for no reason. Infinity are following the game rules in what they are doing. Whether I agree with them or not, they are not doing anything wrong. And they have provided a warning for homins, which is more than they have to. I am not going to flame them or take a position against them because I dislike what they do. They have taken a stance, my *character* will take a different one based on what I think he would do. If Sanz happens to run into this issue, well, I’m sure it’ll be dealt with at that time. Maybe he’ll contact some big guild and we’ll spend a long afternoon in Yrkanis discussing whether I have a case for a duel with their leader. Or maybe they’ll realise I’m /telling and kick me about a bit. Maybe I’ll contact my mentor and ask what’s going on. But at the moment Sanz finds the whole thing distasteful and a typical reminder of how far hominity has sunk in recent years. If action needs to be taken, he’ll be there to observe. But no-one dies permanently. No one has anything damaged further than their equipment or their pride.

I believe that, though my character perceives it as morally reprehensible, I believe that in terms of the game it is perfectly morally acceptable. They wish to play this way and are willing to take the consequences.

And to answer your original question I’ll have to ask questions of my own. If you are talking to Sanz, he has no capacity to work in a shop; why is he working there? Is the shop in a PvP zone? What type of shop is it? Maybe Sanz doesn’t like his job there? Are the 6 people n00bs or 1337s? To conclude, if you were talking to Sanz and told him the hypothetical situation, asking him if it was morally right or not, he’d say no. If you were talking to the person behind Sanz about a situation in this game, he’d say yes.