Ring - The Scoring System

[thurgond]

Here's Marjo's explanation of the scoring system for the ring:

http://www.ryzom.com/documentation/f...coring-system/

I see two problems with this:

1) It's totally based on the use of combat skills and so means story telling and other non-combat scenarios will provide neither reward for players nor rankings for authors.

2) It penalizes lower players for using skills lower than the scenario level, but rewards players for using skills above the scenario level.

Let's use an example to illustrate how it works. You are level 80 in 2H melee, 101 in heal and 183 in elemental. You enter an adventure of Advanced class (101-150):
- Each time you use your melee skill in this adventure, you won't earn RRP, as your skill is lower than the class of the adventure. However this won't prevent you from playing and enjoying the adventure itself.
- Each time you use your heal skill or your elemental skill, you will earn RRP of Advanced class because both of these skills are above the 'Advanced' level limit of 101.

I'm working on a story telling scenario that can be completed by any character that can follow dialog and no longer finds suckling yubo's a chalenge. The only kill task now is for three flegling izam (less if you guess which izam drops the reward). It includes lots of tasks and a few puzzles designed to show the different npc's point of view on the situation and lead to a reward of a long dialog from long-forgotten historical figure. Nothing that will lead to ring rewards for the players or rankings for me, no matter how engaging a story I tell.

I could up the rewards/rankings if I add a step for the slaughter of 100 suckling yubos. Everyone gets lots of RRP's, except the AoD's who kill all the yubos with a couple bomb spells. But yubo slaughter wouldn't fit the story.

On the second point, the system makes it hard to make a chalenging hack-and-slash scenario for players with skills under 200. Say you design an "advanced" 100-150 scenario balanced for 3-4 players with combat skills in the 100-150 range. The scenario could be completed by a team of 9 with skills in the 70-100 range, but they wouldn't get any RRP's. If your team of 3-4 includes a couple players who are Avatars of Something but also have 100-150 level skils, there is no penalty for getting past a tough situation using level 250 skills. The scoring system rewards the high level players and penalizes low level players. Scenarios like Rosidera Forest would get top ratings and generate lots of RRP's for players with 200+ skills and nothing for any player with sub-200 skills. It's the lower level characters who need the cats, not those with max skills.

[aardnebb]

Also the "no-trade" aspect means that you cannot use them to benefit your friends as part of a social gaming experience.

These rewards are _more_ limited than the PvP versions, take more time and effort to aquire and will unfortunately lead to "hack-n-slash" scenarios designed only for farming, while social, puzzle and other scenarios are left out in the cold...

*facepalm*

Still, it _is_ a step in the right direction and I look forward to future revisions and balancing...

[johntf]

Yay more cats ingame...

That makes my month...

(there's irony in this post btw)

Edit:actually lower levels dont need cats as much as high levels, less skill tree's, faster levelling, most lower quality cats produced by op's and ingame. In general I've found its the older players who don't get the cats in preference of the new players in guilds and game too as they can live without them but the new players all crave them inguild. Perhaps a chance for higher levels to earn some cats for themselves might not be too bad if its implemented well.

[kaetemi]

Originally Posted by thurgond

there is no penalty for getting past a tough situation using level 250 skills

you're supposed to be rewarding people with high levels, duhh

[grimjim]

Originally Posted by johntf

Yay more cats ingame...

That makes my month...

(there's irony in this post btw)

An alternate way to get them than OPs is a good thing.
The byzantine and combat-only, non-tradable way of getting them... less good.

[bradcook]

Just completing a scenario should grant at least a point. While this would still favor the hack and slash, it would at least give the RP types something without being easily exploitable.

This would also help people with lower level combat skills.

[vguerin]

Originally Posted by bradcook

Just completing a scenario should grant at least a point. While this would still favor the hack and slash, it would at least give the RP types something without being easily exploitable.

This would also help people with lower level combat skills.

I don't think anyone wants to NOT give points, there just needs to be balance. I hack and slash thru some scenario's with risk of respawning... if all I do is chat, where's the beef ?

[grimjim]

Originally Posted by vguerin

I don't think anyone wants to NOT give points, there just needs to be balance. I hack and slash thru some scenario's with risk of respawning... if all I do is chat, where's the beef ?

In spending the time socialising, improving the game, negotiating, solving mental and social puzzles, engaging in word games, playing a role and adding depth. All much better reasons to reward than straight combat.

[iphdrunk]

My honest opinion, yet it may clash and I don't expect it to be shared.... but here it goes.

I am a bit wary of this. First, from a purely selfish perspective, it looks to me like an important effort in defining ranks, ratios, points, etc.... while several aspects of the game still needing completion. Anyway, ontopic: there are basically 2 different aspects: one rewarding players playing the scenario, and the other rewarding players creating the scenario.

First, the "rewarding players". As much as I would / do / enjoy roleplay (or could, depending on the mood) and I see the possibliities of different scenarios, in my opinion, the notion of ring rewards was supposed to account for the fact that during the time spent in the ring, the player could not be "productive" in the mainland. From a simplistic point of view, "the rewards account for the XP you are not gaining". If roleplaying is not "rewarded" in game -- one could spent hours chatting and socializing, trading, exploring, solving puzzles -- why should be rewarded in the ring? where is the "lost XP to account for"?. why is that, that the first thing that would come to mind is... "if we need to roleplay, why not RP in a ring scenario, so we get XP cats after, and not on the mainland" , etc. you get the picture.

"Well, RPs need to be rewarded for the time and effort it takes"... yes, true, BUT, if RP activities were to be rewarded (which I agree they should) then they should be rewarded throughout Ryzom, not only in scenarios. With the current system, no it does not seem appropriate to me. The ring reward system should aim at the gameplay aspects that are rewarding currently In Game. While other aspects should / need to be considered, they need to be considered globally, and not through this.


On the "rewarding scenario creators". One would naively ask wether the creation itself is or is not rewarding enough for authors. Is not the praise from players and thanks good enough? No, it seems not. It seems that to some extent Nevrax needs to throw bones to scenario creators to motivate them, to create, don't they? Scenario creators need their own way of recognition and ego-boosting (I am master scenario creator, ranked number 1 by 95% of players, my scenarios rock so much that players are begging me to create another). To me, this is yet another form of PvP -- as much as In-Forum PvP.

While I do expect all these "recent announcements" to prove me wrong, I still see how for the last one and half years everything 8ok, ok, almost everything, you nitpicking) has been ring-related, and although this was needed and relevant... maybe some ring features could be classed as secondary or non-priority ? what about doing as with Ops, PvP, etc. and leave a preliminary version and then focus on other things?. All this "scenario creator ranking" seems a simplistic way to try to trigger the competitive and ego boosting soul in content creators.

[grimjim]

Originally Posted by iphdrunk

On the "rewarding scenario creators". One would naively ask wether the creation itself is or is not rewarding enough for authors. Is not the praise from players and thanks good enough? No, it seems not. It seems that to some extent Nevrax needs to throw bones to scenario creators to motivate them, to create, don't they? Scenario creators need their own way of recognition and ego-boosting (I am master scenario creator, ranked number 1 by 95% of players, my scenarios rock so much that players are begging me to create another). To me, this is yet another form of PvP -- as much as In-Forum PvP.

While I do expect all these "recent announcements" to prove me wrong, I still see how for the last one and half years everything 8ok, ok, almost everything, you nitpicking) has been ring-related, and although this was needed and relevant... maybe some ring features could be classed as secondary or non-priority ? what about doing as with Ops, PvP, etc. and leave a preliminary version and then focus on other things?. All this "scenario creator ranking" seems a simplistic way to try to trigger the competitive and ego boosting soul in content creators.

I agree. I don't find it any more helpful than LT's proposed PvP ranking scheme or the issues with the ranking system during the Temple War. On the other hand it is useful for players looking for good scenario creators to be able to see how a particular scenario or creator has been ranked.

Frankly I'd rather I had the ability, as a creator, to trade my scenario popularity/success for rewards I can place IN my scenarios to motivate people to play them. If my capability to produce good scenarios was rewarded with Crystals and other rewards I could place IN my RP scenarios that then provides the motivation and compensation for the players who want to do those things. One could even dish out a handful of crystals based on 'good roleplay' as is done in many TT games.

The risk, of course, is that guilds artificially inflate the rating of their pet designer's scenarios so they can hand out 'kewl stuff' but the current incarnation is just going to encourage crystal-farming scenarios anyway, something I thought we were trying to avoid. :/