Are SWG refugees good or bad for Ryzom?

[ark014]

Are SWG refugees good or bad for Ryzom?

We are a source of new ideas, we like advanced MMOs with crafters and harvesters having an important role, we like multiple professions and a true player economy, and we like advanced combats, complex skill trees, and diverse talents for player characters. All of these features are in Ryzom -- and no other MMO I know of.

On the other hand we tend to miss the old SWG, and even grieve over it's loss, and want to see certain SWG features added to Ryzom. This might be a first class pain in the neck for veteran Ryzom players who like the game as it is.

I am an SWG refugee and am very active in recruiting other SWG refugees to join "Saga of Ryzom". See http://www.imperialcrackdown.com, I run the Ryzom subforum there.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Amphiaraus

[mugendo]

People also come from other games too. This question can apply to any players , not only SWG players (I still have an active WOW account)
In response to your question I was a galaxy player from beta to NGE...of course there are many features of galaxies I miss, the housing, decor, clothing, crafting, vehicles, professions, etc etc etc..in short I miss the game. But I make no attempt to turn Ryzom into SWG in an attempt to satisfy 'my loss'. I have strong views on a couple of Ryzom game issues...and consider myself a Ryzom player.
The only reference I keep to SWG is my little forum picture you see to the left.
<<<-----------

edit - Any player arriving from another game will bring comparisons, that can be difficult, but they are always welcome.

[zanthar]

Hey good job on recruiting! We SWG refugees, I would have to say are starting to make-up a good percentage of the players here! We also bring with us a ton of do and don't knowledge as do players from other games! but I do have to agree with Mugendo that this is not SWG and there are other players from other games with ideas as well!

[ashling]

I think Ryzom does have alot of things that appeal to ex SWG players. It's the best MMO I've played up there with preCU SWG. I think the main thing is for players driven out of SWG by the NGE is to understand Ryzom despite those similarities is a different game which means not everything that was good in SWG might be good in Ryzom. That doesn't mean they shouldn't give their opinions on ways to improve Ryzom but they should conside if it would work well in Ryzom.

Edit: just noticed I might not have made this clear but yes I think they are good

[zanthar]

Originally Posted by ashling

I think Ryzom does have alot of things that appeal to ex SWG players. It's the best MMO I've played up there with preCU SWG. I think the main thing is for players driven out of SWG by the NGE is to understand Ryzom despite those similarities is a different game which means not everything that was good in SWG might be good in Ryzom. That doesn't mean they shouldn't give their opinions on ways to improve Ryzom but they should conside if it would work well in Ryzom.

QFE and very well put Ashling! (I.E.) SWG used to have Bio engineers and there is lore here in Ryzom that states the Karavan taught the Matis some of the rudiments of "Bio Engineering", for example the Matis "built" yubos as IIRC pets and a few others as well as plants, but if they can't put this in the game for us players in a balanced and unique way I am very happy with the game as is or I wouldn't still be here!!!

[philu]

I don't think they are bad, nor are their opinions to be dismissed as just wanting Ryzom to be SWG. Making comparisons to something you know (and love) is human nature. I am 'guilty' of comparing other games to Ryzom when I have looked at them in beta test.

If the suggestion fits within the Ryzom universe then it has merit. They're fresh ideas within Ryzom, if not within the MMO community since they've been done in SWG. New ideas are good IMHO, so are new players.

[dcrispo]

As a former vet from SWG for 3 yrs I do not believe we are bad for this game or any game. Yes, we did issues with the company running SWG and the methods they used to destroy what once was a very popular format. What we can bring to this game and others is the knowledge what can go grossly wrong with any game if unchecked by the user base. SOE failed to listen to its userbase and now the demise of SWG can only be estimated in months.
This is an outstanding lesson to both companies and players that sometimes too much/little change is a bad thing in general.
Ryzom has great storyline to it (our Lore) we need to help the developers formulate meaningful ideas to enhance it through gameplay. Games with true content are rare indeed where as games where players become simple auto-grind machines are all too plentiful.

[naratuul]

Originally Posted by ark014

Are SWG refugees good or bad for Ryzom?

We are a source of new ideas, we like advanced MMOs with crafters and harvesters having an important role, we like multiple professions and a true player economy, and we like advanced combats, complex skill trees, and diverse talents for player characters. All of these features are in Ryzom -- and no other MMO I know of.

On the other hand we tend to miss the old SWG, and even grieve over it's loss, and want to see certain SWG features added to Ryzom. This might be a first class pain in the neck for veteran Ryzom players who like the game as it is.

I am an SWG refugee and am very active in recruiting other SWG refugees to join "Saga of Ryzom". See http://www.imperialcrackdown.com, I run the Ryzom subforum there.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Amphiaraus

Being an SWG Refugee myself, I think that all new players are a good thing for Ryzom. As long as they remember this is RYZOM, not SWG,EQ2 or whatever they came from.

Do I miss some parts of old SWG? Indeed I do- but after playing RYZOM for a year now I can plainly see that many of the ideas that come from SWG refugees just dont blend into our world very well. Some have merit though. The bottom line is play Ryzom, forget about the other games and as you gain experience in our world you will have ideas tha may be partially on something you saw somewhere else but have matured to fit within the frameworks of our world.

I'm not discarding the value of new ideas, I'm simply stating that there is a lot more to things than "oh wow we need pets- SWG had them" (for example)... remember that the good idea bus is what destroyed SWG- supossedly good ideas were rushed into implementation without considering results and the results were "disturbing".

[arfindel]

I believe there are least 3 kinds of SWG refugees. The very old ones who loved the subtle balance game had at its started and progressively forgave SOE of as many things a person can forgive.. <insert long list>
There are then CU refugees who are already used to a rigid level system, but a lot of them regret the possibility to grind masters in a day.
Finally there are post NGE SWG-ers who a lot of time point and shot players, usually these have nothing to do with Ryzom.

Obviously the 3 kinds of SWGers adapt to Ryzom in different grades.

First cathegory lived a time when grinding was almost shameful, when jedis and old crafters received a lot of true respect, when hardcore RP guilds were to be found here and there. Faction was almost sacred.

Second cathegory lived a time when grinding was current, jedis were debatable, bounty hunter was a thought after proffession, thus killing unprepared for fight people current too, when RP guilds shrinked a lot and huge wars were fun. Crafters are still there, commerce is still there, people enjoying to build up museums, bars, dancing bars still there.

Third cathegory had jedi as starter proffession, game was simplified to 1/10 of what it was, changing factions was current, and majority of players were very young. No crafters and very few RPers among them.

So I wouldn't talk anymore about SWGers because SOE explicitedly chased massive numbers of the player base and lured others to such an extent that they are not making anymore the object of a useful generalisation.

However people in Ryzom started receiving refugees immediately after the CU so a lot of the generalisation refers to first 2 cathegories. These people usually are happy with Ryzom editing actions complexity, feel spoiled by technical support, and a part of them enjoy the story and the lore. They usually miss most player housing, decorating them and player cities (replaced symbolically by outposts to a certain extent).
They miss the huge world to explore, the immersive fight animation, the flexibility of commerce but they love the craft complexity and appreciate a brain game overall. They enjoy pvp but miss the spaces for flagged pvp, enjoy big wars but are exasperated with the too big rewards for the winners (and their psychological consequences), enjoy the story but are lost in it's hugeness.

For the ryzomeers the third cathegory comes in contrast with the first and second one fogging any ideas they had about these people.
The third cathegory of SWGers seldom stay in Ryzom and most of the time they are not missed when leaving.

The first and second ones while missing their game have two usual developments. They either go into crafting/digging a lot (and/or enjoy the lore) and will keep asking for player housing and expansions of the lands, usually sustained by ryzomers.
Or they go deeper into depression and saddness, finish by leaving Ryzom and cannot be happy with any otehr game on the market, constituing a free player base for whever who will first build a big, complex, brain game.

Untill these two attitudes split they are somewhat a problem because they are a heavily hurt community, and one can have slight hope of some optimism from them. People who chose to stay though are extremely reliable customers, and generally mature players looking for an alternate home, rather than a game you win and go.

For them SWG is an old sad dream they remember with care, not a viable alternative, and they progressively learn that what Ryzom lacks horizontally (big world, immersive animations, smoothness of levels) it compensates in depth developpment (minutiosity of detail in the world, complexity of storyline, infinity of craft) and simply chose to enjoy what is given.

Slowly the too depressed ones usually leave, and the less depressed learn to enjoy what they're given hoping that future development will satisfy some of the wishing list.

In this process the ones who are close to leaving are somewhat noxious in their neverending saddness, and comforting by friends is pretty useless, if one can make them get involved in some adventures it may help in some cases. They usually meet with part of old ryzomers, the ones that were happy before ep2 and now they aren't anymore in the new world that is constantly restructuring around. And they usually encourage each others to be even more depressed.

Ex-SWG-ers who got to play Ryzom because it is Ryzom not because it slightly reminds them of old SWG will probably stay and play for as long as the game stays as it is or improves (in their meaning of improvement: not easy-fun-easy-SOE-style), probably a stable player base open to support a game and its community for several years.