Fixing an economy

[calel]

Let's face it; everyone knows there's something wrong with the economy on Atys. There's more dappers around than any Tryker git could dream of 'borrowing', raw materials have taken up the spot as prime barter goods, crafters rarely sell their goods through the local markets and if you do happen to trade with the vendors, they hardly seem to recognise the difference between a piece of decent craftsmanship and a mektoub's behind.

GF's been talking about adressing the economy as one of their priorities, which frankly scared me at first, honestly, it still does. It's not usually a small undertaking to change or fix something which will affect your whole playerbase, and certainly not when it is something as widespread as an economy which revolves around player crafting.

Various things have been suggested so far, like money-sinks, increasing prices/value of goods and services, etc ...
But while most of these would seem like good ideas to get rid of currently available dappers, they actually don't 'fix' anything, rather they sweep the real problem under the rug: our bottomless pit of dappers.

Without tackling this problem at the source, none of the other suggestion would make much difference being felt. Due to the fact that more new dappers are being brought into the economy than spend (and will be spend in the future like on money-sinks; consumers will only spend as long as their needs aren't met) and the impossibility of devaluating the currency, we're stuck with limiting the influx.

Therefor I suggest GF takes getting rid of the 'sell to npc button' into consideration; this button alone is the sole reason crafters are the richest persons around, this is where the lion's share of dappers gets brought into circulation.

What good would this simple thing do? It would stop crafters grinding out useless objects and still getting paid for it, instead offering the crafter the choice of either crafting for xp, or crafting for dappers by offering goods for sale on the market. Still short on cash? Grab a pick, forage materials and put them on sale; or go out hunting and sell the loot. All of a sudden you have brought the incentive for foragers and crafters to actually use the vendor system, and you tone down the influx of dappers.

Ofcourse it's only one step.
We'd still need money-sinks to get rid of our fortunes; the possibility of selling OP produce such as Elevation crystals and otherwise pretty underused flowers for instance, RP props, adjusting the price of Altar pacts based on the level of the region the Altar is to be found in, upkeep for Outposts, upgrades for Guildhalls, etc ...
There's still need to recallibrate the scaling on prices of grades, statistics and presence of boosts on crafted items. Or reviewing the 7-day sales limit, selling to and recollecting from hawkers, ...

But if you can't control the influx of dappers, whatever gets changed or reworked in the economy will possibly only aid out for a short while.

[jamela]

Devaluation! *panics*

"Buy! Buy! Buy! Property, catalysts, dung, anything!"

More seriously though, I've been waiting for GameForge to give us some idea of what they are thinking of, hoping they would make a proposal or two for us to discuss. I have liked many of the ideas for money sinks which have been proposed here, but you're right Kyerna, the grinding source of endless dappers needs to be curtailed for the dapper to have any real value.

[mugendo]

At the moment there is a healthy economy in Ryzom, but it's based on resources. Digging and acquiring high level materials are not easy to gather, knowing the prime dig spots, needing the correct skill to extract them, or having a decent enough combat skill and dedicated guild to take an OP are all ways of gaining the quality materials....it's no surprise folk will not part with their hard earned resources for dappers that any 'noob' can get through luck and charity.

The dappers are not important, and should not be considered the ONLY currency, what the crafters and sellers need are markets where they can set their own prices, Maybe use ingame auction mechanics run by players....who would object to auction night in Zorai ?

of course the dappers can eventually be bought under control with small decrease in the payments for 'rubbish' on the vendors, and a small increase in the cost of living expenses.And eventually the dapper will gain a value that can be used as a currency as intended.

[jamela]

Dappers require some serious effort to acquire when you are young and new, I'd suggest no change there. Crafted scrap is priced linearly according to level - quality level - I'd suggest a scale of diminishing returns along the line of a fixed amount of dapper for each level of craft, maybe? (Haven't yet examined the scale of number of items to craft per level and xp gained per item, and whatever; there are much better statisticians playing than I .)

[sehracii]

Decreasing the endless source of dapper isn't a bad idea, but can't remove it completely.

If you remove "Sell to NPC", where does new dapper come from? Because TP alters, NPC merchants, OPs do suck a good amount of dapper out of the system and we need a reasonable way to replenish it.

Missions give a little dapper, but good luck doing enough to earn the 16 million for an OP declaration.

[jamela]

Edit: Hyperactive because I can't log in atm, sorry.

[mithur]

There will be still a lot in cash influx. You get a base price for your goods on sell, the same than selling to npc. If your good are not selled, then you'll still ahve these dappers.

MAybe can adjust that base in some grade.

But this looks to me like a damn good idea... less obstrusive then my own idea of materials degradig and better for the economy.

Surely, if you can't sell to npc, you'll try to forage better materials (For people tu buy), craft better stock (For people to buy too). If you craft 50 swords, you can sel if you have spare place in the 128 limit (Witch migth be doubled), but surely you'll try to sell the best wares to make money, and destroy the crafted-for-xp items.

I really like this idea!

BTW, The auction system is a good idea too, but I think will have less impact in the game economy, even if it will improve the RP and the "feeling" of the game for crafters.

But there is a big problem. Yesterday I run all four continents for focus jewels, and can't find one. So, while I have good dappers, have to ask someone to do it.

[danolt]

The best thing about this idea is that it is adjustable, the prices can be raised or lowered depending on fluctuations. It would be very simple to implement and simple to undo if it turned out to have some unforeseen impacts.

Basically the stable boy would be keeper of the economy, Atys own planetary economic guru, our Alan Greenspan.

[arfindel]

Originally Posted by mugendo

At the moment there is a healthy economy in Ryzom, but it's based on resources. Digging and acquiring high level materials are not easy to gather, knowing the prime dig spots, needing the correct skill to extract them, or having a decent enough combat skill and dedicated guild to take an OP are all ways of gaining the quality materials....it's no surprise folk will not part with their hard earned resources for dappers that any 'noob' can get through luck and charity.

The dappers are not important, and should not be considered the ONLY currency (my underline)[...]

My thoughts exactly.
Ryzom, nturally maybe more than intended, gave an answer to the neverending MMO problem of inflation. Any market with a constant influx of currency and an unstable population goes into inflation sooner or later.
Ryzom's solution to the problem is 3 levels of currency which correspond both to the level of the character and to the level of communities.
These are: dappers, supremes and looted mats. With the NPC bosses we may have a fourth top level of currency.

With these the economy is probably more stable than in most MMOs I know (ofc I don't know all, might be out there other solutions).

If you have a problem and the solution you designed is not enough still the system is balanced and working with a natural solution, don't "fix" it thinking only the solution you have designed deserves to live.

However to complete the players pleasure there is something that the game may use: a richer and more appropriate way of suppying merchandise. The actual vendors are extremely... basic and uncomfortable to use. Some of them are never selling because they are placed in far from any tp areas.

A lot of people would love to have boutiques where to offer their crafted items. More than a money sink this would make a time sink and a beautiful one. Collateral cities with some exceptions have no use at all and could be put to very good job by allowing people to create their (instanced) shops there. It would give life to those abandonned cities, would make commerce much livelier and could also create new lore secondary lines around the products crafted in some places. I bet we would all go to Natae for Sehraci's boutique and to Windermeer for Icenn's weapons etc.

It needs in a first step the ability to buy (or rent) a visitable shop (may be identical to any appartment, nobody will suffer) with 2-3 personal vendors and in a second phase of implementation the possibility to decorate that shop by dropping objects.

[forever]

I really don't want to see a flood of junk grind crafted items on the NPC because it's the only way for a crafter to get dapper.