Kitin Lairs

[aardnebb]

Originally Posted by iphdrunk

It seems unreasonable to me that a few players are left out of the lair due to them sticking to the law.

Heck yeah. Or anything else. *eyes screenshots of PR bosses sadly*

[danolt]

I appreciate the desire to protect my soul. Pardon me if I put more faith in the deeds of the Karavan. It took a decent amount of work to gain the trust of the Karavan to get access to those TP's. Somehow, I doubt that using them is against their will.

Pero

[riveit]

Originally Posted by XoloX

"Lest" has the same meaning as "so that not".
That'd mean , without any if-then-clause, that all 'true' followers of Jena ... who have been in the "bowels of Atys" have already lost their "holy light" and are "devoured by the Dragon's darkness". Righty?

I disagree. Lest has the same meaning as "for fear that". Therefore, all 'true' followers of Jena who have been to the bowels of Atys have risked losing their holy light. They may or may not have lost it, according to how I interpret the words.

This point is clearer in the Karavan Temple version (translation) of Jena's Fifth Commandment.

Fifth Commandment: You shall not descend into the bowels of Atys, for fear that the Light may leave your heart and the shadows of the Dragon may devour your soul.

Elias Tryton is the only one we have told of that has been corrupted by the Dragon, to my knowledge.

[XoloX]

Actually, we both are right somehow, Riveit...
Here's a good summary/discussion about the meaning of that word.

While it's propably safe to assume that word has been used intentionally, that still leaves the choice to the kind reader. That choice is between a chance to "lose the light" and the certainty to "lose the light".
Would any 'true' follower even risk the chance to "lose the light" Jena is supposed to grant to her children?
I'd doubt it very much because there is no known saviour to reclaim it.
Thus... all risking that loss cannot be 'true' followers, whether they already lost it or not.

We might as well compare to "You shall not steal" as with that there might be the chance of noone knowing what one has done - except one, ofc. But I don't like to drag too much of RL into it

And for Elias... who was it who claimed him to be corrupted again? Who says that won't happen at will and licentiously to anybody who thought him- or herself to be a 'true' follower? Homins can be called traitors for many reasons by many factions. It's only a matter of marketing strategy, or in some cases abuse of belief.

Hehe.. while not likely maybe Kitin Lair is a surface place after all

[marct]

Who says we will be helping elais after that event, and the opening of the Kitin Lair. Maybe there will be missions to do the exact opposite.

EDIT: And maybe it will even affect your fame to do the missions in the proposed Kitin Lairs.

[riveit]

Originally Posted by XoloX

Would any 'true' follower even risk the chance to "lose the light" Jena is supposed to grant to her children?
I'd doubt it very much because there is no known saviour to reclaim it.
Thus... all risking that loss cannot be 'true' followers, whether they already lost it or not.

Human history is filled with different religions and sects interpreting divine commandments differently and yet each believes itself to be 'true' believers. Consider for example the sin of usury or the enormous controversies over idolatry.

For Riveit, he is safe in his faith to go into a closed kitin lair to fight kitins unless he has reason to believe that the Dragon lurks therein. The other commandments and the tenth 'promise' of Jena will sustain Riveit in the knowledge that if his faith is pure and strong, he will attain the joy of elevation to disciplehood. You may doubt but a 'true' believer does not.

Originally Posted by XoloX

And for Elias... who was it who claimed him to be corrupted again?

The Karavan Church of Light claims that Elias is (was?) corrupted by the Dragon. More quotes from Karavan Temple lore:

Elias Tryton, a fallen prophet who was corrupted by the Dragon, has reappeared on Atys and tries to influence the homins. He is the one behind the Great Swarming, unleashing the anger of the Kitins to demolish homin civilizations, he opened magic portals to send the survivors into the shadows of the Prime Roots.

As for where the Dragon lies, the lore says that he took refuge in plant cavern in the depths of the planet. Since he has slept his defeat, the totality of the Green Rising must lie above him. The remains of all previous homin civilizations on past surfaces must rest above the Dragon. Therefore, Prime Roots levels such as Sunken City are quite safe for Karavaneers, because the Dragon lies far below.

[borg9]

Originally Posted by vguerin

The rewriting of our lore is troublesome. I stick with the original "do not go into the deep roots in search of the dragon" version for my character. These rewritings keep getting dumbed down because they are translations of the french version, the nuances can be changed by the translator.


The kitins are regrouping and we must act, nothing suggests they are guarding the lair of the dragon... they are prime targets for all homins.

I find it quite amussing that you link to a lore page which has its first line that stating...

"With the exception of the Prime Roots, the Karavan are present throughout Atys"

I guess that the position we should all take is ... we can do what we like and throw paragraphs of lore about to justify it.

As always a quote out of context can tell a completely diferent story to the words quoted.

[riveit]

Originally Posted by borg9

I find it quite amussing that you link to a lore page which has its first line that stating...

"With the exception of the Prime Roots, the Karavan are present throughout Atys"

Where the Karavan themselves go is a separate issue from where they command homins not to go. Perhaps they fear a greater concentration of Draconic ash there, or are themselves more susceptible to the dreams of the Dragon. Maybe their communications or power supplies are vulnerable down there? Who knows?

[tylarth]

karavan can't go in the roots themselves.. well not for too long atleast, but by having put tp devices there, and entrusted their homin allies (kuild) to admin them, i'd say that jena is quite happy to have homins there.

[vguerin]

Originally Posted by borg9

As always a quote out of context can tell a completely diferent story to the words quoted.

Out of context ? It seems you might be the one trying that, as none of us are Karavan and those in PR are merely followers representing the Karavan. We are no more Karavan than we could be Kami, your purposely misrepresenting things here quite a bit...

They were there when we needed them to kill the kitins unleashed by the Fyros, their representatives do a fine job monitoring things for us in their stead.