A Possible Third Group (Faction ?)

[danolt]

Originally Posted by grimjim

There are matters of RP.
There are matters of lore.
There are matters of good gameplay.
There are matters of good customer relations and player retention.
There are matters of game history and previous player action.

You really think that the neutral way of thinking was the only group affected?
You really think no one but your self defined moderates have left the game?
You think no one else has problems with the lore or gameplay?

wow

[grimjim]

Originally Posted by danolt

You really think that the neutral way of thinking was the only group affected?
You really think no one but your self defined moderates have left the game?
You think no one else has problems with the lore or gameplay?

wow

Nope.
Do I think they've been more severely affected and their absence is more noticable?
Yep.

YMMV.

[mrshad]

Originally Posted by grimjim

The K's have no good reason for denying neutrals as they currently exist access as described above.

Do they need reasons? They are Higher Powers, they can dole out or withhold thier blessings as they choose.

I think we have argued it all out. A fair compromise would have to incluide 2 major tings, and one minor thing:

Expensive: The pacts would have to cost enough to make the factions attractive. Given the amount of dapper that is available, it would have to be a very great amount.

Limited: The Devil is in the details here, but parity with the Ks is certainly unnacceptable. Still, a couple of spots in the PR and a 250 zone or two wouldn't be game breaking.

Seperate: There is no reason the Ks would give out pacts to the unbelievers. That they do at all is a mercy, not a requirement. Any new high level 'porters should be run by a third party (I have my own suggestions..but whatever, really). It is a minor complaint, but one that I think would help the lore.

[turjake]

Does Gameforge/Nevrax think that my subscription fee is somewhat less than the factioned players pay per month?

Seems so...

[grimjim]

Originally Posted by mrshad

Do they need reasons? They are Higher Powers, they can dole out or withhold thier blessings as they choose.

Yes they do. Arbitrary decisions create dissonance and weaken the believability of the gameworld. It could be 'scriptural' or something, but it should be there.

Originally Posted by mrshad

I think we have argued it all out. A fair compromise would have to incluide 2 major tings, and one minor thing:

Agreed. I think we've pretty much argued it through and we're almost on opposite ends of the spectrum so I guess we've found a pretty good compromise. I still don't agree with a couple of things.

Originally Posted by mrshad

Expensive: The pacts would have to cost enough to make the factions attractive. Given the amount of dapper that is available, it would have to be a very great amount.

So long as this would only apply to the unique TPs (the high end PR ones) then that sounds fine. No more than 5x as much as normal though I reckon. Doubling the cost of TPs to neutrals at factioned TPs would also be reasonably acceptable though I worry about the impact on new players who intend to faction, but haven't yet.

Originally Posted by mrshad

Limited: The Devil is in the details here, but parity with the Ks is certainly unnacceptable. Still, a couple of spots in the PR and a 250 zone or two wouldn't be game breaking.

The trick is parity of access, not necessarily being exactly the same. Don't forget that the factioned also get other less tangible benefits which also have to be accounted for when working out the balance. That's why I think town access to Tryker should also be allowed - that makes the most sense and does give the neutrals more equal access.

Originally Posted by mrshad

Seperate: There is no reason the Ks would give out pacts to the unbelievers. That they do at all is a mercy, not a requirement. Any new high level 'porters should be run by a third party (I have my own suggestions..but whatever, really). It is a minor complaint, but one that I think would help the lore.

I agree, but if that isn't feasible (at least to start with) then the 'hacking' idea works. Trytonist TPs would need their own graphics, would need to be bugtested etc etc. Its a lot more work than just providing a bypass to existing TPs.

I think we're as close to agreement as we're going to get here, so just hope they've been watching

[danolt]

Originally Posted by turjake

Does Gameforge/Nevrax think that my subscription fee is somewhat less than the factioned players pay per month?

Seems so...

You are asking for more not equal. Factions were how the game was marketed.

Again I think we should focus on additions and not changes. I would like to see all present areas easily accessible by everyone. It is new areas designed with factional/national goals I'd like to see limited.

[grimjim]

Originally Posted by danolt

You are asking for more not equal. Factions were how the game was marketed.

Again I think we should focus on additions and not changes.

No, we're asking for less than equal, but more than we have now. A restoration, not a bonus.

As marketed and played and from lore the game was about rebuilding a shattered world with the factions in the background - ideological more than physical war, which would be against the Kitin in mass RAID engine battles -, perhaps, slowly building to some sort of conflict but one that homins might shape - and that shaping might include ignoring the whole bloody thing and telling the powers to shove it up their fuzzy/BDSM bottoms.

[danolt]

Originally Posted by grimjim

that shaping might include ignoring the whole bloody thing and telling the powers to shove it up their fuzzy/BDSM bottoms.

I dont recall anyone from Nevrax coming to my house and forcing me to build the temples.

[grimjim]

Originally Posted by danolt

I dont recall anyone from Nevrax coming to my house and forcing me to build the temples.

A huge event comes along, the only one for a considerable amount of time. It offers you a chance to influence the makeup of the world by constructing something, it offers new rewards/equipment and a first whiff of Crystals. Oh, and new lore as well! AND it takes place in piece of the old lands!

Then you hide it behind a veil of PvP and for the neutrals all you offer is help the losers.

A lot of that appeals to non factioned, non PvP people but then it's hidden behind something frustratingly awful. That's like showing a starving man a cheese sandwich and then tossing it into a tiger cage.

Its not exactly force, but it isn't exactly consensual either.

[mithur]

Fine; another flamefest. I'm sure you all feel better now... could we return to the OP, please?

First, for the argument that say thet the neutrals will get all for nothing... What has done a factionated player to get the TP? Some grinding fame, let's say (Being generous) 1 day, and a rite? Wow. 1 day in one year, that's a lot of efford.

This is about RP, and being the efford to become factioned so damn low as it is, there aren't a real difference.

I'm sure that you can't say that a High level PR Digger is lazy, or doesn't like do repetitive task, isn't it?

Returning to the neutral issue, I'm with sprite in that no faction needed really. Only make more confortable a default state. MAybe add some lore, yeah, but no more.

And, BTW, the idea of GJ for the tickets revendors are very good xD It's funny, realistic and curious (Some renegade scientist matis has find the form to change the vital signature -or whatever that is was that make the tickets non tradeables- of the ticket so it be valid for everyone, at much highter price).