A Possible Third Group (Faction ?)

[rushin]

Originally Posted by grimjim

A huge event comes along, the only one for a considerable amount of time. It offers you a chance to influence the makeup of the world by constructing something, it offers new rewards/equipment and a first whiff of Crystals. Oh, and new lore as well! AND it takes place in piece of the old lands!

Then you hide it behind a veil of PvP and for the neutrals all you offer is help the losers.

A lot of that appeals to non factioned, non PvP people but then it's hidden behind something frustratingly awful. That's like showing a starving man a cheese sandwich and then tossing it into a tiger cage.

Its not exactly force, but it isn't exactly consensual either.

i think everyone that was there remembers your contribution to the temple event.

Seriously, the game isnt called Ryzom: Special Jyudas Edition, it's just Ryzom. make choices like everyone else, dont expect the game and the community to change to suit you. It's got very old.

[sprite]

All of my previous "constructive" points were working on the assumption that it would be implemented as a new 3rdParty seperate from the current "unaligned neutral" group. FWIW there's not one iota of my being that thinks unaligned players should get anything more than they have already, so I guess I'm out of this discussion.

(unless someone says something really interesting)

[grimjim]

Originally Posted by rushin

i think everyone that was there remembers your contribution to the temple event.

Seriously, the game isnt called Ryzom: Special Jyudas Edition, it's just Ryzom. make choices like everyone else, dont expect the game and the community to change to suit you. It's got very old.

I do wonder if you read what I say, over and over and over... I'm for an inclusive game, rather than an exclusive one.

[sx4rlet]

Originally Posted by sprite

All of my previous "constructive" points were working on the assumption that it would be implemented as a new 3rdParty seperate from the current "unaligned neutral" group. FWIW there's not one iota of my being that thinks unaligned players should get anything more than they have already, so I guess I'm out of this discussion.

(unless someone says something really interesting)

tbh, spriteh, I really appreciated your views. They -are- very constructive, and I've enjoyed reading them. So if you have more to say, please do.

[grimjim]

Originally Posted by danolt

It really sounds to me you just want this game to have a "Jyudas" faction. That anything that does not fit into your characters plans or causes your character difficulty should be changed. I think we agree on the fact that we both would like to see mechanics open up for a greater diversity of opinion and possibility. I just think it should be open to everyone.

I could tell you what my actual heart's desire would be. It wouldn't be what I have been proposing/negotiating. This is why I'm arguing for a more open neutral 'faction'. All it really needs is the functionality and the freedom to represent your play as you desire without being crippled by it.

I don't know why this never gets through (see Rushin's post later) but let me state it as boldly and plainly as I can.

I want an inclusive game that incorporates as many different points of view and ways to play as possible. I don't like PvPers or PvP, but they should be able to do it. Equally, I should be able to avoid it. There should be room for people to play as they prefer within the context of the game and to enjoy it.

What about pirates, what about denominations of the existing factions, the black circle, slavers, what about moonies and Kitin worshipers?

Originally Posted by danolt

What concerns me is creating a group that is so popular that 95% of the population will choose it. I strongly believe that is what would happen if Nevrax/GF follows your suggestions. Taking the religious and philosophical conflict away would remove a lot of the appeal. Who is not going to pick self determination?

Add a PvP flag for neutrals (Pick a side or one that can fight both of the others) as an option and you get your pirates and your bandits and your evildoers. Kitin worshippers and things like the dragon cult, that's 90% RP but people that want to play those things should not be cut off from being able to play the game effectively.

I'm certainly not talking about taking the religious or philosophical conflict away. If anything I think it is being dumbed down by being arbitrarily split in two. Its been much less interesting since it has been going binary and since the 'Tryker first!' lot and the hominists have taken a beating or lost faith in the game. Enabling people to PLAY effectively and enjoy themselves does not undermine anything and makes things more involving and returns some of the shades of grey. Who wouldn't pick self determination? Well judging from responses here and the state of play in game, enough, more than enough.

Originally Posted by danolt

If you want to play the part of technologically inferior resistance. I would propose that you should actually be at a technological disadvantage.

There would be reduced opportunity to access OPs and OP materials and goods. Less people to ally with for boss hunts. Less opportunity to get hold of special skirts, picks and everything else. That's the disadvantage.

Just don't render the game relatively 'unplayable'*.


*exaggeration for effect, substitute 'less fun' if it ruffles your feathers.

[jared96]

Originally Posted by tylarth

The powers are not just gods and religion but economic, physical and political powers with the ability to grant rewards and abilities. There is no such 3rd option of that level of power, thus no 3rd faction.

Says who ? I say false gods, false religions. They have knowledge, they have power. The lore states that the peoples of Atys were united. The lore says they were lead by heroes who drove the kitin back. No reason in the world of Atys that the spirits of these dead heroes could not return and provide abalance against the zealotry of the factions.

[mrshad]

Originally Posted by jared96

No reason in the world of Atys that the spirits of these dead heroes could not return and provide abalance against the zealotry of the factions.

How would they do it?
How would they move players across atys? Magic? Don't the Kami have a corner on that market?

What would the heros believe? Homin unity? Kittin are bad? pretty vanilla, don't you think? Everyone wants that. What sets them apart?

All of I have seen of your hero faciton are things everyone wants, and we have been over why that won't work.

[mugendo]

Originally Posted by grimjim

Well, if you look, we actually seemed to come to what seemed to be an acceptable position. So it wasn't worthless

'we' came to an acceptable position ?....
Disregarding the amount of opposition and concern posts, and taking into account several posts that thought there were a couple of plausible points raised...I guess you could summarise as you did.
Of course this would require me to ignore another concern you often raise grimjim, that the forum becomes driven by a vocal minority.

[mrshad]

Originally Posted by mugendo

'we' came to an acceptable position ?....

Well, GJ and I came to an acceptable compromise...which hardly ever happens, so it is sort of suprising.

And it is acceptable contingent the details, of course, which we probably disagree on.

But, really, I am hardly the arbiter of game changes. In theory, I don't find allowing non-facitoned access to a few high level teleporters for a vastly inflated price to be so bad. But, what do I know?

And I certainly have no influence on how the game evolves, so really all this was probably an exercise in futility. But, I enjoy it anyway.

[grimjim]

Originally Posted by mugendo

'we' came to an acceptable position ?....
Disregarding the amount of opposition and concern posts, and taking into account several posts that thought there were a couple of plausible points raised...I guess you could summarise as you did.
Of course this would require me to ignore another concern you often raise grimjim, that the forum becomes driven by a vocal minority.

Strangely enough that's not one that I often bring up, it's one brought up against me. Though I think it has become more that way thanks to The Usual Suspects and is less useful than it once was.