..and speaking of Neutrality..

[dakhound]

I voted for "shoot those pesky neutrals except kyerna coz she's alright" ..

oh it wasnt an option, damn well I wanted to anyways

[moyaku]

Originally Posted by fiach

Dunno if you can have a kick ass guild with no OP....if the guild was REALLY kick-ass, they would own all the OPs

*off topic*
I think you are mixing things up a little.
Evo is a kick ass guild and we have no op; as far as I am concerned a kick ass guild is a guild in which members enjoy themself like muffins in a birthday party...
*off topic*

[gcaldani]

I voted yes, but i wouldn't join.

In my opinion:

'Neutral' is already a faction, because the absence of a choice is, you know, a choice itself.
'Neutral' doesn't mean 'pacifist', so they can fight factions if they want and can conquer/defend any Outpost if they are able to do.
Because the teleportation is an high power, neutrals are already lucky they can use some altar, due the fact they can earn some 'fame'. Seems logic to me that they can 'earn' fame but not as much as the aligned can.
Then, till the homins will not steal the knowledge of teleportation from kami and karavan we can't do anything to change the TP situation.

Seems to me that, technically, the only thing needed to neutrals is a neutral chat channel, nothing more.

[fiach]

Originally Posted by moyaku

*off topic*
I think you are mixing things up a little.
Evo is a kick ass guild and we have no op; as far as I am concerned a kick ass guild is a guild in which members enjoy themself like muffins in a birthday party...
*off topic*

Hmmmm.... It was a joke, thats why there is a big smiley beside it.

[gillest]

RAWR At last some good talking ....

And I have to say I DISAGREE ......
Not about the neutral faction but about the conception most players have from neutrals.

Originally Posted by ghostkpt

The definition of neutrality is very hazy

Not that Hazy: was clear at start but complex already....
If we re-read the link about Fame, citizen ship and cults provided by Moyaku on another thread:here (note: they do not use the term faction but cult...), neutrality is stated to be the state of any homin at birth...
Each homin can then choose to become citizen of an Nation or/and follower of a cult...
So one can also choose not to follow a cult and not to become a citizen and then stay neutral...
So even at conception, the Neutrality does exist but is already double to be fully neutral: neutral of citizenship AND cult...

1- Let's leave the citizenship for now and speak about cults and higher powers...

Kami I would not even refer to those as a cult tbh: the Kami are present and powerful, they claim to protect Atys and claim to want to help the homins study its magic...
Yes they have powers, but there are lot of power on the planet itself and lot of Mobs using the magic: Kirosta, Jugulas...
They could then be considered as an intelligent specie with extra powers...
Nothing very godly so far....

Karavan Karavans claims to be emissary from Jena and explained to us that we were to be freed from this planet if we follow their teachings and obey their orders...
Did they prove to anyone that Jena existed?
Do they even know WWJD? (thx for that one DT)
Or are they only trying to get homin to their own cause for who knows what dark objectives....

Left us possibility to follow one of those 2 groups as one agree with either of them or possibility to stay suspicious and to not follow them...

Then, they forget their own words from the time we appeared onto this planet and started wage war against each other for the possession of the lands... But they do not wage war themselves: they send their followers....
One more act that could sound very suspicious: Usually deities do not send their followers to war: it is the followers themselves for go to war in the name of the deities...
So from there again 2 possibilities: go to war and follow even deeper or refute to go to war et separate oneself from the cult: becoming neutral again...

With leaves us 3 Category: Kami and Kara cult followers and Neutrals...

2- The TP's:

Big incoherence indeed to have the Karavan sending their followers to the PR when Jena/karavan teachings do not tolerate it....
One could object that they do it in order for their followers to be equiped with better materials but it is still against the teachings.....

Neutrals..... hmmm. why would they let the neutral use their TP?
What do any high power need to get stronger? Followers....
It seems coherent to have both faction letting homins use their TP and they could always hope to rally those to their cause by providing them some services....

Now would the neutral be allowed to access Q250 areas, they could be a way to keep the same coherence as now through birth lands or area.
Option 1- Karavan would prefer to have Matis or Tryker followers so the forest and lake neutrals could have only access to Kara TP of PR and regional 250 areas.. Kami would give Kami TP to zorai and fyros..
Option 2- Zorai lands and Fyros land are Kami territory, so the Kami would let neutrals access Kami TP in areas 250 in hope to enroll them (leaves the PR problem open tho)...

Neutral guilds factionned for TP's:
Kind of make sense to me tbh, they may even be the clever ones: they manage to dupe the Kara/Kami in having them believe they were followers but in fact do not obey the K/K directives but follow their owns.

3- Creating a third faction:
Again plenty of possibilities...
Tryton indeed could be used if we refer to the lore and the history...
But who need those:
A player or Dev run event could be the start of a new faction: the "AGAINSTS" (please do not use that name lol) where the Neutrals of cult declare a war and sign a pledge to take over the planet and to free the homins from the lies of those high-powers who only ask hominity to serve them for their own selfish interests...
Objective of the new faction:
- unbrainwash the kami and kara followers
- free the lands
- take over the TP's which are in fact only nerf points of atys that are actived by seeds but have been shared 50-50 between kami and kara at start and hidden inside kami-kara artifact to dupe the homins.... (told ya they were liars...).
- Exterminate the kitins to make a giant BBQ party
- And obviously as Beau underlined, the usual cuddle parties and walk in da park (sry i disgress) after the BBQ...

Then Neutral of cult could have a PvP tag too: to teach peace to cult followers with their newly crafted axes, swords and maces: it is easier to unbrainwash a follower when his skull is open....
Just as to remind everybody: Neutral of cult does not necessarily means pacifist: it means those homins do not accept to kill on behalf of liars that s all.. We all know that homins like their little killing from time to time

Originally Posted by audrimas

True neutrals are:
1. Not aligned to any faction (even for TP).
2. Not fighting in any OP wars.
3. They don't care about region/alliance/faction wars.
4. They not joining a losing side.

So sorry MJ dear but I have to disagree on that...
1. Explained above.
3. You mixing two sort of neutrality.
4. So wrong as well imo as the neutral do not want any of the cults been overpowered so they could go for the balance...

2. Reference to Citizenship and OP wars.....
Lets say I love the forest but I am suspicious about the Karavans and Kami.

Hypothesis: the real revolution stirrer does not fight from the outside but tries to integrate himself into the system to fight it from the inside....
In order to fight the Karavan away from the forest, I would then join Matisian forces by becoming a citizen...
I could then help any Matis guild at any OP, whichever cult they are following against any Tryker, Zorai, Fyros guild attack of any cult....

Some could name themself protector of the desert and fight guilds from all cults and citizenship attacking Desert based OP owned by Fyros guilds.....

As Neutral of cult and neutral of citizenship, a Homin could also come to an OP war to protect another homin he has always considered as his brother or to only come to fight against an homin he has always considered as his ennemy....

Now the problem I think come from the fact that all Homins, guilds have so much interest in OP mats and cats that the OP are the ultimate thing to own... Made even worth by politics (spying, aliancing, flaming) which could be blamed to the bipolarity of the system: you may think atys is not back or white but it is somehow what the devs have tried to do: Black and white, kara/kami, Jena/MadDuck, Tryton is started to fade from the memories...

So I say yes to a third faction:

Long live the "non-culted", the hominists: this could actually make OP battle politics and strategies much more interesting at is open even more options....
- Will the Kami make ally to their long sworn Kara ennemy to stop the flow of attack to the non-culted?
- Will the non-culted accept to help those brainwashed homins? or will they only to weaken them in order to be able to kill them more easy after?
- Will we see 3 sides OP battles? Or even some factions torned apart as half of their members attack while the other half defend?
- Will the non-culted bring balance or chaos to our world?
.........
Forgive the gramma, the spelling and all the bad english sentence, thx

[vguerin]

Originally Posted by gillest

Then, they forget their own words from the time we appeared onto this planet and started wage war against each other for the possession of the lands... But they do not wage war themselves: they send their followers....
One more act that could sound very suspicious: Usually deities do not send their followers to war: it is the followers themselves for go to war in the name of the deities...

Lest we forget, it was not us homins that defeated and drove back the kitin after the Fyros unleashed the kitins fury. We barely survived as a race, hidden underground while the forces of Jena and Ma-Duk saved us.

When we were in our direst time, the deities came to our aid and quite possibly saved us from extinction. Our forefathers who came back to the surface after the Exodus, our their very lives to these higher powers. The Karavan sealed up many avenues the kitin were using to slay our brethren. During our rebuilding period the Karavan were in close contact with us, nurturing us while we made ourselves a new home.

(OOC - good post, just keeping the record straight :P )

[arixia]

Originally Posted by vguerin

Lest we forget, it was not us homins that defeated and drove back the kitin after the Fyros unleashed the kitins fury. We barely survived as a race, hidden underground while the forces of Jena and Ma-Duk saved us.

When we were in our direst time, the deities came to our aid and quite possibly saved us from extinction. Our forefathers who came back to the surface after the Exodus, our their very lives to these higher powers. The Kami sealed up many avenues the kitin were using to slay our brethren. During our rebuilding period the Kami were in close contact with us, nurturing us while we made ourselves a new home.

(OOC: just keeping the record even straighter )

[cushing]

*cough* Rewriting even Kami Lore, aren't you?

[mugendo]

Originally Posted by beaut666

............... Unsure of "what" is out there? I know that the lore explains everything, but surely we could think that in an advanced society like Atys there would be SOME homins that aren't sure WHAT to believe?

When discussing factions there are many variables to influence our choices.....But these can be diluted into two categories, initial observation shows us...
Location, and Peer Influence.

In effect many of our free 'choices' are in fact pre destined for us. Let me give an example....
The survival of a species depends on their ability to adapt to an environement.
Who would expect A Zorai living in the jungle to learn the skills of the Fyros residing in the desert.
Of course the same species ..in this case our little Homins, will diversify over time into very different cultures.. The Fyros living in the harsh desert survive through strength and endurance, And the Zorai rely on their their minds more using the natural protection and bountiful resources of the Jungle.

As more time passes the two cultures become completely independent of one another.....
This has happened on Atys over time to create Four cultures.

Do we have now Four Factions ?

And as history has shown on many occasions, the same message delivered by the same messenger has the capability to be interpreted differently by each audience....in our Atys, we have four possible interpretations.

Let us assume ONE deity was recruiting followers, once the message had been delivered and interpreted,

Is it conceivable we have now Four Gods ?

Now we can see the potential for confusion arising from this evolution of a single species who diversify to survive.

Of course I have not included the basic Homin emotions such as Desire, Greed, Ambition...
Which in turn attract their own followers wishing to achieve immortality, wealth, power....

How many factions do we now have I wonder ?

Of course the Four cultures are still independent in the above statements,

What Factions are created when we mix them ?


As you see we already live in a world of Multiple factions, even the Karavan or Kami Follower has an allegience to their clan, creed, culture, family, to consider.....This creates sub-factions....True/passive/theory followers/believers.

So I have concluded there is only One Faction I believe in......

I call that Faction ......Homin !.

[gillest]

Originally Posted by mugendo

Homin !.

RAWR one more time Mugendo, Welcome to the "against" faction
We will fight to rule this world.... To free our kind...
From the liars..
From the kitins..
From the vorax..

Now i do not really agree with 4 factions: we are talking about races...
4 races, all homins who, as DT stated, were nearly exterminated and were saved by 2 uber powers claiming to be deities ...

Originally Posted by vguerin

When we were in our direst time, the deities came to our aid and quite possibly saved us from extinction. Our forefathers who came back to the surface after the Exodus, our their very lives to these higher powers.

Just one "misconception"/Flaw here tho: our forefathers were indeed saved by higher powers... Some homins choosed to make deities out of them...
Kara never claimed to be, they claimed to speak on behalf of one.. which none ever saw

Originally Posted by vguerin

(OOC - good post, just keeping the record straight :P )

OOC : I hope you are joking, was probably one of the best I ever made (jk sry)